WOMEN"S ANTI-DISCRIMINATION COMMITTEE CONCLUDES CONSIDERATION OF GERMANY"S REPORTS

Press Release
WOM/1174

WOMEN’S ANTI-DISCRIMINATION COMMITTEE CONCLUDES CONSIDERATION OF GERMANY’S REPORTS

Sexual harassment and gender-based discrimination, hardships faced by minority and religious communities in Germany, and the perpetuation of gender stereotyping were among the issues at the heart of this afternoon’s meeting of the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women.

As the Committee concluded its consideration of Germany’s combined second, third and fourth periodic reports, one expert expressed concern that current German law determined that the victim of gender-based discrimination had an obligation to prove that discrimination. The burden of proof was too heavy and should be transferred to the defendant, she said.

Another expert, noting that women belonging to ethnic and religious minorities faced violations of their rights because of their traditional practices, expressed surprise that the gender aspect played only a minor role in studies on Germany’s foreign population. What programmes were in place to combat the negative influence of fundamentalist religious movements, and what was the State’s attitude towards those movements? she asked.

Expressing concern over Federal Government measures that seemed to perpetuate gender stereotyping, another expert asked whether a pilot project was planned to judge the impact of those measures. She asked the German Government to address that issue in its next report.

Also this afternoon, Edith Niehuis, Parliamentary State Secretary at Germany’s Federal Ministry for Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth, and members of her delegation responded to questions raised by the Committee’s expert members.

Aida Gonzalez Martinez, Committee Chairperson, noted that the number of questions that experts had asked about violence against women reflected their concern about the worldwide growth of that phenomenon. She asked the German delegation to disseminate the periodic reports as widely as possible.

The Committee is expected to meet again at 3 p.m. on Friday, 4 February, to adopt the reports of its working groups as well as its report on the twenty-second session. It is also expected to discuss the provisional agenda for the twenty- third session.

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Committee Work Programme

The Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women met this afternoon to conclude its consideration of the combined second, third and fourth reports of Germany, submitted in compliance with article 18 of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. [For background information, see Press Release WOM/1173 of this morning.]

Comments and Questions by Experts/Replies by Government

An expert, noting that the Government had adopted special educational measures for women, for example special professorships, wondered if the Government could ensure the mainstreaming of gender issues into the curricula of universities. On the issue of the State’s visa laws, she pointed out that resident visas granted by Germany were gender neutral, making women subject to violence and trafficking. She also asked whether there was a facility for collective bargaining laws, particularly to deal with violations of women’s rights in the workplace.

EDITH NIEHUIS, Parliamentary State Secretary at the Federal Ministry for Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth of Germany, responded to an expert’s question raised during the meeting this morning on non-reference to the Convention in Germany’s reports. She noted that it was uncommon to refer to articles of Germany’s Constitution when preparing reports, and that the preparation of the State’s reports to the Committee followed a similar course.

On the point of reconciling work and family, she noted that the Government had changed the law on child-raising leave and added a supplement that would allow parents to work part-time by reducing their hours and resuming their full- time duties at the end of the period. She thought that those laws could be used to advance women’s opportunities and also to encourage men to reconcile family life. She stressed that women’s rights were implicit in the question on reconciling family and work.

She said that the name of her Ministry had been a simple solution when ministries dealing with family affairs, senior citizens, women and youth were merged.

Turning to the issue of the proposal to implement a programme for guaranteeing equal rights in the private sector, she said that it was easier to bring about equal rights in the public sector. In the private sector different actors had to be addressed. The Government did not just want to pass a law -- it wished to change a reality. Powerful people in the private sector needed to change their views first. Most women worked in the private sector, she noted.

MARIANNE THIELENHAUS, Director of the Ministry’s Department of Women’s Issues, said there were still problems in integrating women in the new lander into the work force. The unemployment rate in the new lander was higher than in western Germany. Reunification had brought profound changes for women in the country’s eastern part.

She said that, at the legal level, the Social Code provided that women had to be promoted in relation to their participation in the workforce. In the five new lander, combating unemployment was a very high priority.

On child care, she said that children between the ages of 3 and 6 years had full insurance coverage. During the first years after reunification there had been a sharp decline in the birth rate but the rate was back up. Women were organizing but there was still much to be done in relieving the difficult unemployment situation.

Regarding the integration of foreign women, she said they had different needs from those of German women. While the participation of younger women in the workforce was almost equal, that of married and older women was much lower than participation by German women. The new lander had language courses that targeted foreign women and children.

There were no figures for crime against foreigners, she said. It was necessary to incorporate statistics broken down by gender.

RENATE AUGSTEIN, Desk Officer in the Federal Ministry for Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth, responding to questions on violence against women, said that article 3 had previously been broadly discussed in Germany. To ensure protection for women against whom violence had been perpetrated, further mechanisms had been set up, particularly in the past two years, by various agencies, including the police force and other State institutions.

She said that the question of who was at fault was decided after analysis of the evidence. But, in cases where violence was involved, members of the judicial system held different opinions. She agreed with the suggestion that members of the judiciary needed to be trained in that area. However, judges were independent and could not be ordered to undergo mandatory education. The Federal Government was currently looking at ways to induce judges to participate in that kind of training. She also addressed issues related to the trafficking of women and prostitution.

CORNELIA ROGALL-GOTHE, Director in the Interior Ministry, addressing the issue of asylum, said that the spouse of somebody entitled to asylum would also be granted asylum. That was a legal provision that served to help women, because they were not required to provide their own reasons for seeking asylum. That law was gender neutral. Family asylum was designed to maintain family cohesion regardless of whether every member was endangered in his or her own country.

Regarding prostitution, she said there was a need to define prostitutes as voluntary professional prostitutes, and not those forced into prostitution. Prostitution was in Germany to stay, as the services of prostitutes were used by a million German men every day. When prostitutes worked they were subject to taxation, although that did not mean that they actually paid taxes.

An expert expressed concern over the application of the second equal rights act. While many of its provisions were only applied to public sector employees, the Convention had stated that governments must deal equally with the private and public sectors. She also expressed concern about collective bargaining over sexual harassment and gender-based discrimination against women. Presently, German law determined that the victim had an obligation to prove that discrimination. The burden of proof was too heavy, making the allegations difficult to prove. She suggested that the burden of proof be transferred to the defendant.

Another expert felt that the migrant and minority community in Germany suffered more hardships that those imposed on German citizens. An Alien Act had been referred to. What were the provisions of that Act? How would the Government ensure that all of the Act’s provisions would be taken into account when dealing with migrant and minority women? Could those women obtain social security and medical benefits? Could they claim federal compensation? she asked.

She also expressed concern over the status of women’s employment in Germany. She noted that the Federal Government had taken measures to improve that situation. However, those measures seemed to perpetuate gender stereotyping. What was the implementation mechanism? Did the Government plan to use a pilot project to judge the impact of those measures? Also, those measures were applicable to the private sector and not to the law. She requested that Germany address that issue in the next report.

Another expert, referring to Germany’s reunification, asked whether there had been a systematic analysis of the status of women in the country’s eastern part, since reunification would have had a greater impact on them economically. Were there federal contingency measures under article 4 of the Convention to help those women to integrate quickly into the society and enjoy equal rights? Were there particular measures at the State level to help them get jobs?

Ms. NIEHUIS, responding to questions about equal pay, said the Federal Government could influence wages in the public sector, but not collective bargaining arrangements in the private sector. While women were not earning as much as men, that did not mean there was wage discrimination. The Federal Government was looking into the reasons for the wage gap and intended to publish them, but there was not much else it could do.

Regarding parental child-raising leave, she said that 90 per cent of women would take maternity leave at a certain point and that employers therefore felt there was a certain risk in employing women. But the Government wanted to make employers see that men were also responsible for child raising, thus removing the perception of risk.

On sexual harassment and discrimination, she said the Government was working on ways of transferring the burden of proof. Regarding loans for women, they were being guaranteed by a national bank. That programme had existed for three-quarters of a year and had been extremely successful in helping women to launch new businesses.

Ms. THIELENHAUS stressed the need to differentiate between migrants who had the right of residence and those who did not. Migrant women received the same social benefits as Germans, such as medical care and other services. The problem with social integration was not a legal one, but a social one where it was necessary to use targeted measures like overcoming the language barrier.

She said that a study on foreign women and girls in the workforce was planned with the aim of giving them the same status as German women. On the labour market there were supplementary measures which were constantly reviewed. The Government was looking at the Labour Promotion Act with the intention of focusing more on women in continuous employment rather than those who had interrupted their employment.

Regarding disability measures, she said the Government was discussing a bundle of measures with the private sector, including one involving public contracts and the private sector’s readiness to promote women.

Ms. ROGALL-GOTHE, Director in the Federal Ministry for Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth, said that gender-specific reasons for granting asylum were currently being closely examined. Germany decided on the right to asylum and granted refugee status based on the Vienna Convention. Political persecution was based on race and religion, in addition to other factors which could be attributed to the State, if it did not intervene in the persecution. Gender specific aspects represented an argument for political persecution, but they had to be taken on a case by case basis.

The Alien Act also provided that no one could be deported to any country where they expected humiliating treatment or torture, she continued. Another stipulation against deportation was when the person would be in mortal danger. The law also allowed for appeals against those decisions, and proceedings were undertaken in special offices for refugees. Where women were involved, a female officer conducted the proceedings.

One expert pointed out that specific legislation in Germany regulating critical areas in anti-discrimination were not in place and, consequently, effective results could not be realized. She wondered what kinds of policies and programmes regulated the approach of media towards stereotypical roles. She expressed further concern over the perpetuation of the roles of migrant and foreign women in the media.

She said it was a socio-political reality that women of ethnic and religious minorities might be subject to violations of their rights because of their own traditional practices, and she was surprised that the gender aspect only played a minor role in studies on the foreign population in Germany. Systematic data should be gathered, and the public must be sensitized to respond to the protection and promotion of human rights of women in compliance with the Convention. To that end, the media was especially important.

Also, since the protection of the rights of women living in Germany was the State’s responsibility, what programme was in place to combat the negative influence of fundamentalist religious movements, particularly Islam, on those women? she asked. What was the State’s attitude towards those movements.

Another expert asked whether the social and national integration process was still continuing 10 years after reunification. What were the emotional effects of reunification on women in both eastern and western Germany? What were the roles of the Federal Government and non-governmental organizations in that process?

She asked what obstacles the Federal Government had encountered in the process, specifically in relation to problems faced by married and young women. Were their needs changing? How did the Government evaluate its role in the process? Had there been any misjudgements? Had there been any in-depth surveys of the emotional and social effects of reunification, or were any planned?

Another expert, referring to migrant domestic workers recruited through au pair schemes, asked what measures were in place to eliminate the recruitment from the non-European developing world of young girls who were not protected in the developed world. It was well known that au pairs could not enter European countries unless au pair visas were given by German missions or consulates. What measures were in place to protect those girls against sexual harassment and other dangers?

Ms. NIEHUIS, responding to the questions on reunification, said that women who were 10 years old at reunification had had the easiest time integrating because they had been able to grow into the new Germany. Middle-aged women had had the most difficult time emotionally since they had had difficulties securing employment, among other problems. Older women had had an easier time because they had been provided for through the West German pension system.

After reunification, the birth rate had declined drastically, she said. That was an indication that when women felt insecure they did not readily give birth. Nevertheless, women in eastern Germany had eventually found ways of coping with the new situation.

She said the Federal Government had developed programmes together with non-governmental organizations, which had been encouraged to organize women’s non-governmental organizations and youth programmes in the east. One big misconception about reunification had been the expectation that the situation would improve much faster.

On the effect of fundamentalism on migrant communities, she said that Islamic and Christian fundamentalist movements were not subject to Government influence since the Constitution guaranteed religious freedom. Germany had often been criticized as being too liberal on fundamentalism.

She said she was not familiar with the situation of au pairs from South-East Asia. It was possible that illegal activities were occurring, but she did not have enough information to answer questions on that matter at present.

Ms. THIELENHAUS said when the press broadcasted or printed presentations that could endanger young people, the offending media organization was placed on an index. Two months ago, a very well-known women’s magazine contained elements of pornography of young girls. That magazine was placed on the index and withdrawn from circulation. That proved that the Government could intervene, although freedom of the press was practised in Germany.

She also said that, recently, a study had been commissioned on the stereotypical roles of women as they were depicted in the media, and the results showed that women played a more important role on the surface. Below that surface, however, traditional gender roles remained in more subtle forms.

An expert highlighting the position of women in public life in Germany noted that the percentage of women in political parties was very low, and that most likely influenced women’s ability to participate in decision-making forums. Considering its achievements and development, Germany was lagging in that regard. She, therefore, wondered how strong the woman’s movement was in enabling that participation. Was the Government considering taking special measures to ensure that women were represented in public life?

Another expert wanted to know what was the impact of programmes implemented in compliance with article 5 (elimination of stereotyped roles).

Did the State coordinate with non-governmental organizations to ensure participation of women in public life? an expert asked. It appeared that women had achieved access in the media, but that the gender concept was the same, she pointed out.

What was the situation with regard to prostitution? she continued. She got the impression from the reports that only foreigners engaged in that activity. Were German nationals engaging in that profession also? If so, how did the State approach that issue? She also asked how did the Federal Government guaranteed healthcare for older and rural persons.

Ms. NIEHUIS said that with 35 per cent representation of women in decision-making forums, Germany occupied second place in Europe in the area of female participation. The country had made significant progress, but she understood that perfect representation would mean 50 per cent.

On the question of guaranteeing equal rights for women, she said there had been a slow change. Statistics and research showed qualitative and quantitative differences as opposed to 30 years ago. The State was obliged to create the conditions that would transform enjoyment of those rights into reality.

Referring to the question of healthcare for older persons, she noted that different levels of welfare and care insurance had been implemented as another pillar in ensuring that older persons enjoyed those rights.

AIDA GONZALEZ MARTINEZ, Chairperson of the Committee, noting the advances Germany had made in its development, said that members’ curiosity about the dynamics of the report, particularly about participation in politics, anti-discrimination laws and women in the labour force, was natural. Also, the number of questions that experts had asked relating to violence against women reflected their concern about the worldwide growth in that area. She requested that the delegation, upon returning to Germany, widely disseminate the reports that it had presented to the Committee.

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