TRANSCRIPT OF PRESS CONFERENCE BY SECRETARY-GENERAL KOFI ANNAN AT UNITED NATIONS OFFICE AT GENEVA, 26 JANUARY

Press Release
SG/SM/6875

TRANSCRIPT OF PRESS CONFERENCE BY SECRETARY-GENERAL KOFI ANNAN AT UNITED NATIONS OFFICE AT GENEVA, 26 JANUARY

THÉRÈSE GASTAUT, Directrice du Service de l'information des Nations Unies à Genève: J'ai l'honneur d'ouvrir cette conférence de presse par le Secrétaire général des Nations Unies, M. Kofi Annan. Monsieur le Secrétaire général, avec votre permission, je vais d'abord donner la parole au Président de l'Association des correspondants auprès des Nations Unies à Genève M. Alexander Higgins.

ALEXANDER HIGGINS, President of the Association of correspondents accredited to the United Nations at Geneva: Welcome back to Geneva Mr. Secretary-General and thank you very much for being here and having this news conference. The United Nations problems continue now especially concerning Iraq with the problem over United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) the Security Council divisions and the latest United States-Iraqi confrontation appears to have resulted in civilian casualties. What can be done to restore a common United Nations approach on Iraq and in the longer term to restore respect for the blue flag that has suffered such a setback recently in Angola and elsewhere?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: First of all, let me say how happy I am to be back in Geneva and to be back with you. With regards to the question, you may know that the Security Council is working very hard to find a way forward. The French Ambassador did put forward the French proposals to try and break the paralysis and move the process forward. Since then, there have been other ideas from the Russian Ambassador, from the Canadian member of the Council, and then there has also been a very useful document, a think piece from Mr. Mohamed El Baradei of the International Atomic Energy Agency. I think Thérèse Gastaut has copies for you. Yesterday the Council received an important document also from Mr. Butler, basically assessing what has been done and what needs to be done. It is going to take some time but the search is on to find a common ground. And if one searches, then I will hope that the Council's unity will be restored and we will find a way forward. The situation is very difficult on the ground in Iraq as you accurately point out, and I think tensions in the region have also risen. And of course, with Security Council so divided and searching for a solution, we are not in a perfect state. But we are working very hard and I hope we can find our way forward. You are also right when you touched on Iraq and other troubled spots around the world. At the end of the year, my last press conference of the year on 14 December, I myself indicated that with some of the issues, Iraq and Kosovo in particular, we were going to have a tough year this year. I thought we had a bit more time. I did not realize that we were going to get it right from the beginning of the year. The Angolan situation is desperate because the parties are at war. The Lusaka Protocol has broken down. The United Nations and the international community have made efforts for many years to try and get the parties to settle their differences peacefully. At the moment, I cannot say that we are doing very well, in fact, I think the parties are not talking to each other seriously and we, as peacekeepers and mediators, are not able to play a role and that explains the recommendation I made to the

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Security Council. The Council members and other African Governments have promised that they are going to prevail on the parties to cooperate and to work with the United Nations. Whether this will succeed in the short term, I do not know. But we will continue our efforts. I think what is important in all this, and I am sorry I am taking a longer time to explain this, what it is important here, is to alleviate the behaviour of the protagonists. Why do these efforts succeed in some areas and fail hopelessly in others? And here where the parties cooperate and the will to settle is there, the mediators can do a lot. And I think we need also to collectively put pressure on the parties concerned. We sometimes take them off the hook by saying the United Nations has failed, the international community has failed, but not the leaders and those who are fighting and are unwilling to cooperate, who have failed. Why did we succeed in Mozambique and fail in Angola? There are lessons and questions there to be posed which we have been posing to ourselves and I am sure you will too. Its a messy world, but we have to have hope and we are doing our best.

QUESTION: Monsieur le Secrétaire général vous avez prononcé un discours devant le «Council for Foreign Relations» à New York le 19 janvier. Je vous cite. Vous dites que certes il est parfois tentant d'exprimer l'indignation que l'on ressent face à certaines transgressions surtout lorsqu'on sait pouvoir ainsi gagner des points sur le plan politique, mais céder à cette tentation irait à l'encontre d'une obligation plus large: celle de prévenir les agressions et de maintenir la paix. Fin de citation. Ma question, Monsieur le Secrétaire général lorsque les instruments qu'on a mis en place pour maintenir la paix et prévenir l'agression dévient de leur mission initiale dictée par la Charte des Nations Unies et deviennent un alibi pour l'agression et le déclenchement des hostilités est-ce qu'il n'est pas du devoir moral et politique du Secrétaire général en tant que garant de la Charte des Nations Unies de dénoncer les abus? En clair, Monsieur le Secrétaire général, pensez- vous que l'UNSCOM sous la direction de M. Butler a encore une crédibilité pour continuer son travail?

Le SECRÉTAIRE GÉNÉRAL: Certes, le secrétaire général doit parfois condamner et parler clairement et honnêtement et je l'ai fait souvent. Je l'ai fait souvent et même j'irai plus loin que cela, il y a des moments où on peut utiliser la force et oú l'utilisation de la force est légitime, donc ce que je disais au «Council for Foreign Relations» n'empêche pas que le Secrétaire général parle clairement mais le Secrétaire général ne peut pas adopter la même attitude et le même comportement, qu'un ministre des affaires étrangères ou bien un chef d'État particulier. Je dois, être conscient de l'intérêt général et poussé dans les réactions que le Conseil a tracées. En ce qui concerne M. Butler, j'ai eu l'occasion de dire que l'UNSCOM et lui ont eu un travail très difficile et compliqué à faire avec un régime qui ne coopérait pas, un régime qu'on est en train de pousser tout le temps à appliquer les décisions du Conseil de sécurité. Évidemment vous lisez tous les journaux, les membres du Conseil de sécurité sont divisés en ce qui concerne M. Butler. Le

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Conseil, comme je viens de le dire, est en train de chercher une solution pour aller de l'avant et nous sommes en train de le voir tous les mécanismes que l'on a aujourd'hui pour mettre en application notre résolution concernant l'Iraq. Donc on verra à la fin qu'est•ce que le Conseil mettra en place pour poursuivre le travail.

QUESTION: Monsieur le Secrétaire général, dans le rapport du Conseil de sécurité sur la mission de maintien de la paix on constate l'échec de la statégie adoptée jusqu'à présent par le Conseil de sécurité dans les conflits comme en Iraq, au Kosovo, les Grands Lacs, l'Afghanistan, l'Angola, etc. Quel serait à votre avis, Monsieur le Secrétaire général, si on prend l'exemple du Kosovo, la meilleure façon d'intervenir pour stopper la violence et le génocide serbe contre les Albanais ethniques du Kosovo après le massacre de Racak?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: I think after the massacre, you will notice that the international efforts have become re-energised, if I may put it that way. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) has met, the Contact Group has met, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has met, and they are putting collective pressure on the parties to come to the table to settle. Ultimately, it is a political and peaceful solution which is the best way forward. I hope that it is not hopeless and that we will be able to find a political decision. The international community should remain firm and vigilant and I think that indication has gone out to President Milosevic and to the parties.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary-General, a NATO commander said on German television today that the Alliance is ready for military action and that the option will be used. Can you comment on that please?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: I am going to Brussels at the end of the day and obviously I will be visiting NATO, but not only to discuss Kosovo but about other issues as well. The issue of the use of force has been in the air for quite some time. Everyone had hoped that the issue can be resolved peacefully without use of force, but if the situation continues, as NATO has indicated, it may be unavoidable. And of course the question has been raised as to the attitude what will the Council do and whether Security Council endorsement or authorization will be required. Normally the use of force in the past for these operations has required Security Council approval. The Council has not discussed this issue fully. There are expectations that there may be difficulties in the Council, one or two members may have difficulties embracing the use of force. But they have not really either vetoed it or not. I think that what I should say here is that given the situation on the ground, if it were to deteriorate very quickly, I think the Council will have to face up to this. We have had other situations where compelling situations on the ground have required the international community to act. But I do not want to project what the Council would do or not do. We need to get together. In

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these situations, I must say, and we also saw this in Bosnia. It is when the international community comes together and acts in unison that we usually make progress.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary-General, you talk about conflicts. Many of these conflicts are basically caused by poverty, so my question is would you foresee in parallel with trying to solve conflicts and peacekeeping and so on, to reinforce the role of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) in development. Another short question. How do matters stand between the United States and the United Nations regarding payment?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: Your first question is a very important question. In fact, it is an issue we discussed at the SMG -- the Senior Management Group -- which meets once a week, bringing all the heads of departments together, including Geneva, Vienna and Nairobi, who participate through teleconferencing, with participation of the UNDP, the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), the World Food Programme and the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA). And I raised this very issue that when we talk of conflict or the sources of conflict, we tend to focus on the political and military. There is an economic basis for conflict, we should be clearly aware of this. As the world economic situation becomes difficult, if it were to deteriorate very fast, we can see social instability and dissension in countries leading to social disorder and creating problems for us. And therefore, we should really be very active in working with governments to strengthen their institutions and help them on the economic front. Yes, we all believe that globalization has brought many benefits, but there is also a down side, which sometimes affects the people or creates what my good friend Jim Wolfenson calls the other crisis -- the human crisis. We need to find ways and means of sustaining that. Obviously, we are not in a position to create safety nets for everybody, but we should be conscious and encourage governments and in our own approaches, be sensitive to this because it does have impact on the kind of crisis you refer to.

On the United States payment to the United Nations, we are still in discussion. We still have not gotten a cheque. Now that there is a new Congress in Washington, I hope that one of the issues it will take up and resolve will be the payment of their debt to the United Nations. I think the United States has a leadership role to play in the United Nations, and I have said time and time again that the United States needs the United Nations and the United Nations needs the United States. And I think United States leadership could be significantly enhanced if it were to pay its way.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary-General, could you please elaborate to us on your position concerning the position of Iraq for non-recognition of United Nations Security Council resolutions and its borders with Kuwait. The second question: what if the Palestinian authority proclaimed a State next May? What is your position, Sir?

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The SECRETARY-GENERAL: I think Iraq is obliged to comply with all Security Council resolutions. All the efforts we have made in the past year or so was to get them to comply, not only with the disarmament aspects but also with the other aspects of the resolutions, including missing Kuwaitis and return of Kuwaiti property. There is a whole range of issues that Iraq must comply with and that has to be done. There has been no change in that. I would still urge and hope that they will do it. I was surprised by some of the latest statements in the press. There seems to be a sense of desperation setting in. But I hope we can find a way of bringing things back. I know the Arab States are trying, and we are trying in New York, and I hope the Iraqis will also be thinking about the way forward.

On your second question: I have seen dispatches which seem to indicate that Chairman Arafat may postpone the declaration of a State beyond 4 May. I hope that in the meantime, and after the Israeli elections, the peace process will move forward and one can resolve some of these outstanding differences because I think all of us know the impact or the implication of the creation of a State on 4 May. I hope that what I am hearing is a right position.

QUESTION: A follow-up question to my colleague's question on Kosovo. Do I understand you correctly, Secretary-General, that you say if the Security Council has not fully explored the issue of using military force, that you think there might be a situation that NATO has to go ahead without even seeking discussion or a mandate. Secondly, NATO air strikes have been the only form of military use that has been discussed since last summer with regard to Kosovo. Do you still see any chance to talk about an international ground force with not only a clear-cut Security Council mandate but if possible, with the participation, for instance, of Russia?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: Let me say that when I made my statement about the Council, I meant that the Council has not discussed completely this issue. Some people have said if it is put on the table, this or that country may veto it. But the Council has not had the chance to really discuss it. There have been discussions informally behind the scenes. That is what I mean, it has not come to that crunch. We do not know whether they would have done it or not. And of course when it comes to use of force to compel compliance, there are many forms: air power is one and ground troops. The United Nations is not in the lead on this one. It is NATO and the OSCE doing it. I know that earlier on, one had discussed ground forces on the borders which did not materialize. So I do not want to say anything that may appear to be second guessing, that is with the mandate and with those who have reviewed the situation and come up with the concept. I am sure all options, including ground forces, may have been considered. And if they were considered, why were they rejected, and why was air power opted for? So I would want to be prudent here, since I am not at the centre of all these discussions and military plans.

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QUESTION: Sir, the humanitarian situation in Iraq is deteriorating continuously because of the United Nations sanctions and according to your former assistant, Dennis Halliday, these sanctions are causing genocide. In your opinion, will these sanctions with their humanitarian results ever end, assuming the current Government remains in power. Or does Iraq have to be disarmed as you recently wrote in the world press, neglecting to specify if this meant weapons of mass destruction or total demilitarization of Iraq?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: Let me start with your last point. The Security Council resolutions are clear. We are dealing with weapons of mass destruction. The Security Council does not call for total disarmament of Iraq. Iraq is allowed to keep some defensive weapons, but not so lethal as the types that we are seeking to destroy. Even in missiles, they can keep missiles up to 150 miles but not beyond. And so we are not seeking total disarmament, we are seeking to strip Iraq of weapons of mass destruction to ensure that it is not a threat to its neighbours. On the question of your other sanctions, I cannot argue with the fact that the sanctions have had a negative impact on the conditions of the Iraqi population. I think the Council itself, realizing that sanctions are a blunt instrument, immediately offered oil-for-food hoping that it will help alleviate the suffering of the Iraqi people. It has not been a perfect scheme and there are discussions going on now, as you know, on the proposals on the table, some are suggesting that we improve the humanitarian oil-for-food scheme considerably, others are suggesting we lift the sanctions. What has also made matters worse is the price of oil which has dropped perhaps to its lowest level in many many years and also the fact that the Iraqi oil industry is in a state of disrepair and has not been able to pump up to the 5.2 billion dollars worth that it is authorized. So one is looking at all these things and looking at ways and means of helping the population and avoiding the kind of suffering they are going through which you refer to.

QUESTION: Sir, the other day in Dublin you mentioned conversation with the Yugoslav Government. I wondered whether you had had further contact and whether you were given any assurances about Mme. Arbour to be able to conduct the Tribunal's work there?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: I did speak to the Foreign Minister, as some of you will know. I sent a message through him to President Milosevic asking him to change the decision that Walker should leave Kosovo and also to allow Mrs. Arbour to join in the investigation and that it is only a third independent party investigation that would be credible. I have not spoken to them since that conversation but I will be prepared to do so if necessary.

QUESTION: Monsieur le Secrétaire général, j'ai deux questions, la première concernant le Timor. L'Ambassadeur Marker se dit très optimiste dans la perspective du nouveau round de négociations qui débutera dans deux jours et, sachant que le Gouvernement de Djakarta est en train d'armer des brigades

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civiles timoraises intégristes, quelles sont vos réactions face à ces agissements et comment envisagez-vous ce nouveau round de pourparlers ? Deuxième question, en ce qui concerne l'Angola, ne craignez•vous pas que le départ des éléments de MONUA fasse souffrir davantage la population civile ? Ne serait•il pas préférable au contraire de renforcer la MONUA ou même de former une armée d'interposition ?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: On East Timor, I share Mr. Marker's views. He has just come back from East Timor where he spoke to the authorities and also spoke to Zanana Guzman. We are pressing the Government to make some changes and the Government had told us earlier on that they will reduce their military presence and they will continue to free political prisoners and we are happy to note that Guzman himself has far greater contact with people ideally who would eventually want to see him released and we are talking to the authorities about that. So far the talks have made some progress. In fact I think at the end of this month both Portugal and Indonesia will open interest sections in their respective capitals, which is the direct result of these talks. And I would also hope that when they come together at this coming session, we will make further progress in our discussions on the broad autonomy proposals.

Indonesia is in a difficult situation now. There is quite a lot of upheaval and I would hope that the Government would be able to contain this situation and in fact allow the people to express themselves, particularly in East Timor. We are encouraging them to allow both sides to express their views, to organize and exchange views. But the parties should also restrain themselves and really avoid the sort of criticisms and confrontations between those who would want integration with Indonesia and those who want independence. And here I think Guzman would be able to play a role and I think he is in touch with everyone.

On Angola, when I say we have not been able to achieve our goals and that we should reconsider our presence, we have made it clear that the humanitarian workers would stay, the human rights people would stay, the question was the political situation and peacekeepers. The peacekeepers have all been moved from the dangerous areas into Luanda or safer areas and, dependent on the discussions with the Government, may leave. When you talk of the Governments perhaps strengthening the force and putting in an imposition force, perhaps under Chapter VII, it is always an option but it is an option that I do not think the Governments are considering at the moment. And I am not sure, given the nature of the fighting and the situation on the ground, how viable that option would be.

QUESTION: Secretary-General, two years ago in this room, I asked for your views, if you had any, on arms sales and whether you favoured subsidy bans or export credit bans on conventional weapons. In your speech to the

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Disarmament Conference, you would like to see something done on illicit arms trade of conventional weapons. What are your views on the official sales?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: I think, generally speaking, one should really try and curtail arms sales and the arms race. We tend to focus on the nuclear weapons, but the conventional weapons and the small arms are doing lots of damage around the world. In most of the conflicts today, most of the killing is being done with conventional weapons and small weapons. And so whilst I talk about, I specifically mention illicit trade, I think weapons' build-up of all kinds should be considerably curtailed. For example, in my report on Africa and the sources of conflict and economic and social development, I did suggest that no Government should be encouraged to spend more than 1 per cent of its budget on the military. And if we can cut it, which is exactly going in the direction that you are saying, if there are no buyers there will be no suppliers. And so if we can encourage Governments to use their limited resources on economic and social development rather than military, I think the world would be much better off.

QUESTION: Monsieur le Secrétaire général, on n'a pas beaucoup parlé de l'Afrique sauf de l'Angola. Tout à l'heure vous avez dit, en parlant des problèmes du monde, que les parties en général ne jouaient pas le jeu; une des causes de ce qui n'allait pas, c'était que les parties ne jouaient pas le jeu, que d'autres ne faisaient pas assez pression; or en Afrique, en afrique centrale, la situation est vraiment catastrophique alors, moi j'aimerais savoir qui sont les parties qui peuvent jouer le jeu ou pas, et d'autre part qu'est-ce qui peut faire pression quand on voit le rôle joué par la prolifération d'armes, les intérêts pétroliers, miniers et les mercenaires qui circulent partout.

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: I think on this one the leaders in the region have all been actively engaged. Not only have they been engaged in the fighting but some have been engaged in the search for peace. You have several institutions trying to get peace in the Central African Republic. The OAU is actively engaged in it, the Southern African Development Community (SADC) is actively engaged, we at the United Nations have been working with them and, in fact, when it looked as if they were ready to sign a cease-fire, we had two military advisors sitting down with them and working out a cease-fire agreement which could be signed. I myself had a series of meetings with them in South Africa and in Paris, but once the conference is over, other things seem to interfere.

On the question of arms and how you control the issue, I have had a recent discussion with one of the chairmen of the Sanctions Committee in the Security Council who has become quite pro-active and, you would also notice in my own report on Angola, I did give some suggestions as to what can be done to strengthen the sanctions regime. And one of the things the chairman wants to do is not only focus on the neighbours but also go to supplier countries and

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trading companies and Governments to try and see what they can do to help, what they can do to give them, in a sense their teeth. Well, I was encouraged by the meeting that took place in Namibia between the five Governments which have troops on the ground -- that is, Rwanda, Uganda, Angola, Namibia and there is a fifth one, anyway, three are fighting on the side of President Kabila and two on the other side. Apparently they decided that they would want to sign a cease-fire agreement. If that were to hold and the Governments fighting in the Democratic Republic of the Congo were to agree not to continue the fight, I think it would be an impetus for the parties to settle and come back to the table and discuss. I hope that when they meet next time in Lusaka, the will and their determination to sign will be there. But it is a very complex and a tough issue and, you are right, it is not just the governmental armies but you have lots of militias, and many groups are fighting on the ground.

QUESTION: A propos de l'Afrique toujours, mais en Belgique où vous allez ce soir, Monsieur le Secrétaire général, des parents de victimes du génocide rwandais demandent une enquête indépendante au sujet du rôle des Nations Unies et de votre rôle personnel pendant les événements de 1994, qu'est•ce que vous allez répondre à ces gens si vous les rencontrez à Bruxelles ?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: I have no problem with that investigation but of course we also need to bring the Council on board. I think I can say that, and I am sure that perhaps I speak for many, that I was very distressed and very aggrieved by the tragedy in Rwanda in 1994. And we have all searched our conscience and I can say that I have searched my conscience, I have thought about that tragedy, it is something that we all need to think about. I think we took decisions out there with the best of intentions and in all these situations mistakes are made and will be made and some are tragic. What is important in my judgement is for us to draw lessons from these situations. And I am talking not just of Rwanda, I am talking about Somalia, Rwanda, Bosnia. It is important that we draw the right lessons. We cannot bring back those who have left us and that is tragic. As I said, we all deeply, deeply regret it and feel distressed.

But let's take Somalia. I think, yes, we did have tragedy in Somalia and that Governments have pulled out. But what is the lesson from Somalia? Is the lesson from Somalia that we do not engage, that we do not put troops in harm's way any more? Or the lesson should have been what did we do wrong and that we should avoid risking lives of soldiers and others and then move on to the next operation?

Rwanda in a way became the victim of Somalia, of what happened. The lack of will to get engaged in Rwanda. I think there has been some impression given that the Council did not have all the details. The Council did not get one cable. We do not always give every bit of paper that comes in these

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operations to the Council. You give them a synthesized impression and no one in the Council can claim that they did not know what was going on in Rwanda. In this day and age with information technology, I do not think that the luxury of not knowing, the luxury of using lack of knowledge as an excuse for inaction can be sustained. I think we need collectively to try and find the will to intervene, to move as quickly as we can and to avoid killings and genocide. On the investigations, I have no problem with investigation. We really did our best. It was not enough and we are all deeply saddened by it.

QUESTION: My question is, recently we have seen the unilateral action by the United States and the United Kingdom in Iraq. Now we see preparation of the NATO Organization for unilateral action in Kosovo. Does it mean, in your opinion, that we are assisting the beginning of the end of the system of international governments established after the Second World War and the end of the role of the Security Council as the global council which is the final instance in the question of the global security?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: Well I think that conclusion or judgement would be a bit of an exaggeration. Let me say that on Iraq, obviously there are differences in the Council, the United States and Britain maintain that they have the authority on the existing Security Council resolutions. We also know the views of the other Council members, including Permanent Members. So the best one can say here is that there is a difference of interpretation and I hope the Council will overcome this, find this unity and move forward.

On Kosovo, force may be used as you have indicated. I do not know whether it will come to that or not, but I think this is a question that has exercised quite a few of us. If the Council were to be fully faced with the issue, I am not sure whether there would be vetoes on the table or not. But we have to understand in recent history that wherever there have been compelling humanitarian situations, where the international community collectively has not acted, some neighbours have acted. Here for example I have in mind Viet Nam in Cambodia. And that did not destroy, I hope, the international system, and I think given the nature of the regime and what was happening there, the international community came to accept it. I am not making an analogy of implication here, but what I am saying is that those in the middle of the Kosovo conflict should listen to the appeals that are being made and we should not be placed in a situation which you have referred to where the international community may be divided. In my earlier appeals, I indicated that we should find a way of working together and that when we stand together, and put collective pressure, we almost invariably succeed, and I hope we can in this way.

QUESTION: Would you welcome a more extensive British intervention in Sierra Leone which is said to be under consideration at this moment? And the second question, which is linked to that, bearing in mind Sierra Leone's natural resources and mining interests, at the moment the United Nations is

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seeking to increase its ties with the private sector. What is your response to what the International Committee of the Red Cross last week defined as the growing privatization of conflict, namely that in places like Africa, it is not just mercenary interests, but also external economic interests, companies, which are responsible for triggering and financing conflicts. What is your response to the privatization issue as well?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: We will start with your first question. We have a rather tragic and compelling humanitarian situation in Sierra Leone. The Economic Community of West African States' Monitoring Observer Group (ECOMOG) forces have been trying very hard to bring the situation under control. They have received encouragement and promises of support from the international community which has not always been forthcoming. So any assistance one can give to the forces that are trying to contain the situation and bring the situation under control, I am sure would be appreciated. On the other issue, I think we are also equally worried about that and in fact this is why when I talked about the sanctions regime, I said the Chairman of the sanctions committee wants to go and talk to Governments, wants to go and talk to companies, that are either buying diamonds or sending things, to see what one can do to contain their efforts. And it is one of the most difficult aspects of these conflicts. Where there are resources and war profiteers get engaged, it becomes intractable and it is very difficult to control or bring to an end because you have those who have interest in the conflict and gain materially from it and will sometimes work against the forces of peace. And we need to find ways and means of working with Governments to bring those activities under control and to check them. So I have no disagreement with the Red Cross, it is their concern on this.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary-General, I would like to ask you a question regarding Sudan and how the United Nations is dealing with the problems in Sudan. Recently we have heard information on atrocities that apparently took place in the first three months of last year in and around the city of Wau in the south. I would like to ask you, can you confirm the existence of mass graves around the city of Wau caused by executions apparently by forces from the Government? Secondly, can you explain to me why New York is dealing with this issue and not the human rights office here in Geneva, since it concerns human rights?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: Let me first of all say that I have no information about the mass graves that you referred to, but obviously we should look into it if there are any allegations to that effect. On the situation in Sudan, we have tried to assist both through the humanitarian front and also tried to assist the peace process, because at the end of the day, in the final analysis, it is only peace that will resolve the pain, the suffering, and the hunger in Sudan. It was last month I sent the Under- Secretary-General for Political Affairs, Mr. Kiren Prendergast, to the region, to Nairobi, to talk to the Kenyan authorities, both President Moi and the

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Foreign Minister. They are the ones leading the Intergovernmental Authority on Development (IGAD) efforts at mediation and IGAD is coordinating the peace process. We have offered them assistance. We want to do whatever we can to strengthen their efforts. The IGAD and the Governments in the region want to continue the process and the protagonists have agreed on IGAD, but we want to do whatever we can to support the effort. And from there he went to Sudan, to talk to the leadership in Khartoum to try and push the process forward. We will continue those efforts. On whether the High Commissioner for Human Rights is involved or should be involved or not, of course they should on the human rights aspects. The effort from New York is on the humanitarian aspect, the supply of food, working with the World Food Programme and others in trying to get them access, and trying to get the parties to keep the humanitarian flows going through and not blocking them. So there is room for everybody, for the humanitarian effort, for human rights and for other agencies and non- governmental organizations.

QUESTION: Monsieur le Secrétaire général, je voulais vous poser une question en rapport avec votre participation au Forum de Davos. On a parfois le sentiment que vous privilégiez vos contacts et vos rapports avec les milieux d'affaires. En vous rendant à Davos, n'avez•vous pas l'impression que vous apportez indirectement une caution à la mondialisation et à la libéralisation dont ce forum est justement le promoteur sinon le thuriféraire. Donc, vous avez dit fort justement tout à l'heure que de nombreux pays et une grande partie de la population de la planète souffraient au contraire de la mondialisation. Est•ce que, à Davos, vous allez aussi vous faire l'interprète de ceux qui sont en marge du bénéfice de la mondialisation et pourquoi ne saisiriez-vous pas l'occasion pour proposer l'annulation de la dette des pays du tiers monde ?

The SECRETARY-GENERAL: Thank you very much for that question. First of all, let me say that on your last question, I have already done that in many forums. I have spoken for the elimination, the reduction of debt, and we will continue to do that. It was also one of the main recommendations in my Africa report and in our discussions with the Governments during the Economic and Social Council and other issues.

Let me perhaps take a few minutes to explain our approach to the private sector. You are right on globalization, we have made it clear that there are benefits and there are drawbacks and that we should be aware of both. I do not think one can turn back the clock on globalization in an open market, but one should find a way of minimizing the negative aspects and managing some aspects of it. In Davos -- I am not going to go there as a wide-eyed promoter of brutal capitalism -- but I will be putting some suggestions to those gathered in Davos as to what they can do on three specific areas without waiting for Governments to act: on human rights, on the environment, and on labour standards. It is a constructive engagement. You are dealing with forces that have considerable power and influence around the world. You are

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dealing with forces that today are the main creators of employment, the motor behind creation of work. They have the technology, they have the money, they have the management and they have the financial resources. So I think one should be able to engage them to work constructively with us in making this world a better place. I think that the United Nations, at a time when they become such a dominant force, at a time when official development assistance is being reduced, if we do not find ways of working with them as partners in a constructive way to spread development, I think we will not be doing our work to influence things in a positive direction. This is one of the things that we have been trying to do. I think when you read what I say in Davos, you will agree with me that we are trying to be a positive influence and not a negative one. But your question was a valid one. Thank you.

Mme GASTAUT: Je vous remercie beaucoup Monsieur le Secrétaire général; il y aurait encore beaucoup de questions, donc nous vous attendrons avec beaucoup d'impatience la prochaine fois.

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