GA/EF/2733

RESOURCE NEEDS OF COUNTRIES AFFECTED BY DESERTIFICATION STRESSED BY SPEAKERS IN SECOND COMMITTEE

24 October 1996


Press Release
GA/EF/2733


RESOURCE NEEDS OF COUNTRIES AFFECTED BY DESERTIFICATION STRESSED BY SPEAKERS IN SECOND COMMITTEE

19961024 The need to reach an agreement on functions of the Global Mechanism established under the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification was stressed by several speakers in the Second Committee (Economic and Financial) this morning as it concluded its consideration of environment and sustainable development.

The Global Mechanism was established in article 21 of the Convention to promote actions leading to the mobilization and channelling of substantial financial resources, including the transfer of technology, on a grant and/or concessional terms, to affected developing country parties to that treaty. The creation of the Global Mechanism was among the innovations of the convention that is officially called the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification in Those Countries Experiencing Serious Drought and/or Desertification, Particularly in Africa, which was finalized and adopted in 1994.

Speaking on behalf of the "Group of 77" developing countries and China, the representative of Costa Rica stressed the need for a facility to meet the resource needs of countries affected by desertification. The representative of Ireland (on behalf of the European Union and associated States) stressed the need to reach agreement on the functions of the Global Mechanism. Speaking on behalf of the Rio Group, the representative of Bolivia said that, apart from acting as a clearing-house, the Global Mechanism should have its own resources and also be able to mobilize resources.

The representative of Niger proposed the creation of an environmental protection solidarity tax, one-half of which would go to environment protection nationally, while the other would go to an international environmental solidarity fund.

The representative of Benin said that countries that wished to confine the Convention's financing mechanism to bilateral aid should not forget that the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and the Convention on Biological Diversity benefited from both bilateral aid and their individual

financing mechanisms. It was also stressed by the representatives of Egypt and Zambia that the Convention to Combat Desertification should be put on an equal footing with the other environment-related legal instruments.

The President of the International Fund for Agriculture Development (IFAD) said that the Global Mechanism should go beyond a clearing-house function to actively solicit and facilitate the participation of financing institutions and the private sector in implementing the Convention. His organization would consider housing such a Global Mechanism, he said.

Statements were also made by the representatives of Hungary, Mongolia, Germany, Ukraine, Nigeria, Republic of Korea, Algeria, Israel, Kazakstan, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Philippines, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Iran and Bolivia (in his national capacity).

The representative of Sweden read a statement on behalf of the Chairman of the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee for the Elaboration of an International Convention to Combat Desertification (INCD), Bo Kjellen. The Executive Secretary of the Interim Secretariat to the International Convention to Combat Desertification, Arba Diallo, and the Director, United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) Office to Combat Desertification and Drought (UNSO), Samuel Nyambi, responded to issues raised in the debate.

The Committee will meet again at 3 p.m. tomorrow, 25 October, to continue its deliberations.

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

Committee Work Programme

The Second Committee (Economic and Financial) met this morning to continue consideration of environment and sustainable development issues. (For background information see GA/EF/2728, of 21 October and GA/EF/2730, of 22 October).

Statements

PATRICIA CHAVES (Costa Rica), speaking on behalf of the "Group of 77" developing countries and China, said combating desertification was a global problem. Efforts should be made to implement the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification in Those Countries Experiencing Serious Drought and/or Desertification, Particularly in Africa. Long-term efforts towards that end should take account of local conditions. Consultations and the negotiations emanating from the ninth session of the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee for the Elaboration of the Convention should result in more assistance to mitigate the impact of drought in the affected countries. The key concerns to developing countries were the issue of establishing a facility to meet the resource needs of affected countries and the question of the headquarters to host the secretariat of the Convention.

The facility should recognize the devastating impact of the problem of desertification on countries affected by it, she continued. She hoped the tenth session of the Intergovernmental Committee would result in agreement on resource mobilization. Regretting that the Convention had not been given priority on the international agenda, she acknowledged the progress achieved in implementing Agenda 21, the programme of action adopted by the 1992 United Nations Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED), particularly its provisions relating to desertification.

JAMES O'CONNELL (Ireland), speaking on behalf of the European Union, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia and Iceland, said the Convention to Combat Desertification was one of the major achievements in the area of sustainable development since the Environment and Development Conference. The Union welcomed the fact that sufficient numbers of countries had ratified the Convention to allow it come into force. He noted that the first Conference of the Parties to the Convention would meet in September 1997 in Rome.

It was reassuring that even before the entry into force of the Convention, steps against desertification were being taken, he said. The Union intended to continue to cooperate with affected countries to combat desertification. There was particular need to reach agreement on the functions of the Global Mechanism and the permanent secretariat. [Note: The Global Mechanism was established by article 21 of the Convention to promote actions leading to the mobilization and channelling of substantial financial

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

resources, including for the transfer of technology, on a grant and/or concessional terms, to affected developing countries which are parties to the convention.]

GUSTAVO PEDRAZA (Bolivia), speaking on behalf of the Rio Group of countries, including Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Mexico, Paraguay, Panama, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela, Costa Rica (for the Central American countries) and his own country, said on 27 September this year, the fiftieth instrument of ratification to the Convention to Combat Desertification had been deposited. The Rio Group welcomed that development. The most important pending issue now was the establishment of the Global Facility. The Rio Group believed that the Global Facility should not act simply as a clearing-house, but should have its own resources and should be able to mobilize adequate resources, including from new and additional sources of funding.

Desertification affected a third of the surface of the planet, he said. Stressing the need for urgent action in Africa, he said that desertification and drought also affected the Rio Group region. In fact, poverty and environmental degradation were connected. Desertification was as much an economic and social issue, as it was an environmental issue. It threatened food security, and a holistic approach to the problem was required. The Rio Group would comply with the Convention. It had already held two regional conferences on the subject, the last one in Mexico City.

ISTVAN NATHON (Hungary) said one of the most valuable outcomes of UNCED had been agreement on the fact that environmental issues could not be tackled in isolation. The solution of socio-economic problems needed a new, comprehensive and integrated approach, and should be effective and ecologically sustainable. From the outset of the consideration of the matter, Hungary had underlined the importance of high-level participation in the forthcoming special session of the General Assembly for the purpose of an overall review and appraisal of the implementation of Agenda 21. The session should deal with global challenges such as environmental hazards, like depletion of the ozone layer, loss of biodiversity, rapid extinction of species and anthropogenic increase of greenhouse gas concentrations. The session should not be a forum for North-South debate since the problems faced were global, requiring global solutions.

Hungary had promulgated a law on the environment as well as a nature conservation legislation creating the necessary legal framework for the implementation of its environment policy, he said. A national commission on sustainable development and a national environmental council were coordinating intersectoral activities in the field of the environment, he added.

D. GHANKHUYAG (Mongolia) said the challenge to adequately address the growing danger of desertification and drought required urgent concerted

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

international response. As a predominantly dry-land country, Mongolia had a special interest in the early entry into force of the Convention to Combat Desertification, and that was why it was among the first to ratify it. The Assembly's special session should determine future concerted actions in implementing Agenda 21. Mongolia considered that the outcome of the first Conference of the Parties to the Convention to Combat Desertification, to be held next year, would be a turning point for the coordinated action of the international community to combat desertification.

He hoped the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee on the Convention would reach a decision on the issue of resource mobilization. Mongolia was implementing national plans to address environment and development issues. Appropriate technology, resources and technical cooperation were required to carry out those plans, he added.

ROGATIEN BIAOU (Benin) said the Convention to Combat Desertification had identified measures to be taken at different levels to combat desertification. However, the road ahead was long and it would involve, among other things, the regeneration of arid areas. He expressed concern that the developed and developing countries had not agreed on the Global Mechanism for the Convention. The door to the Global Environment Facility (GEF) had been closed to the Convention. Countries that wished to confine financing to the Convention to bilateral aid, should not forget that the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and the Convention on Biological Diversity benefited from bilateral aid even though they had their own financing mechanisms.

At the interregional level, an Asian-African forum on drought had been held in Beijing recently, he noted. At the national level, Benin had been the third African country to set up a national forum to combat desertification. He thanked all the countries which had helped organize that forum.

KLAUS-JURGEN HEDRICH (Germany) said the Assembly's special session would have to find an answer to the question of what had been achieved since the 1992 UNCED on the path to economically efficient as well as socially balanced and ecologically sound development in both North and South. Practical conclusions would have to be drawn from the experience gathered so far. The carefree use of scarce energy and the production of waste and emissions damaged the environment. That was why States would have to give account of what concrete measures they had taken to change those patterns. Common efforts should be directed equally to the fight against poverty, which was an important cause of non-sustainable management of resources.

Within the framework of German development cooperation, his country had impressed upon its partners that global threats to the environment had to be considered when projects or programmes were being designed, he said. Together with its partners and within the framework of the European Union, Germany was

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

using a wide range of political instruments to achieve cohesion between international economic conditions and mutually agreed upon development goals to support developing countries, especially the poorest among them. Private initiatives from the trade and industry sector and the participation of all parties in the fight against poverty were becoming important, he added.

BACHARD ISSOUFOU (Niger) said he supported the statement of Costa Rica on behalf of the Group of 77. Niger was one of the countries which continued to suffer from desertification, deforestation and drought. That had led to, among other things, a displacement of population and loss of productive capacity. Desertification was like an infectious disease -- if it was not controlled in one country, it would spread to others.

There was a need to sensitize the entire world to that problem, he said. Stressing the importance of the Global Mechanism, he proposed the creation of an environmental protection solidarity tax at the national level. One half of that tax would go to environmental protection in the State where it was collected, while the other half would go to an international environmental solidarity fund.

SVITLANA M. HOMANOVSKA (Ukraine) said the special session of the Assembly to review Agenda 21 should focus attention on land degradation, transfer of environmentally sound energy-saving technologies, new and innovative sources of funding and the involvement of the private sector. The special session should also adopt an agreed document of practical orientation. In addition, it should consider the future role of the Commission on Sustainable Development with a view to extending its mandate and making it a principle United Nations body dealing with issues related to sustainable development.

Twelve per cent of Ukraine's budget was absorbed in dealing with the consequences of the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, she said. She hoped that the international community would continue to create conditions which would allow Ukraine to meet its obligations and decommission the Chernobyl nuclear power plant by the year 2000.

AMBROSE D. OJIMBA (Nigeria) said preventive measures, including integrated development programmes to eradicate poverty, should be implemented in the effort to combat desertification. Alternative livelihood systems in areas prone to desertification should also be considered. There was an urgent need for the international community, in particular the donor countries, to mobilize resources to support the activities and programmes of affected developing countries, particularly those in Africa.

Several African countries, including his own, had initiated schemes and programmes to implement the Convention to Combat Desertification, he said. They had undertaken activities in the context of national action programmes in

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

the face of inadequate resources and lack of the necessary technology. The international community, particularly the donor countries, should implement the resolution adopted by the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee on Desertification on assistance to African States, he stressed.

RAE KWON CHUNG (Republic of Korea) said, as a country which had experienced fast-paced economic development, the Republic of Korea had learned that incorporating the concept of sustainability into the development strategy from an early stage was far better than applying a "develop first and clean up later" approach. Its experience could serve as a useful example to countries seeking to pursue a "leap-frogging strategy".

All too often cross-sectoral and interministerial issues had been inappropriately addressed because they fell into the grey area between the jurisdiction of different bureaucracies, he said. Therefore, governments must well coordinate their functions to address the issues raised by Agenda 21. Moreover, sustainable consumption patterns must be encouraged. He welcomed the imminent coming-into-force of the Convention to Combat Desertification before the end of the year.

ADEL ABDEL LATIF (Egypt) said much attention should be given to efforts to combat desertification. The abuse of natural resources just for survival should not be allowed to continue. There had to be a strategy. Lack of financial resources made it difficult for the least developed countries to develop national capacity to deal with environmental problems. A global solution was required. Eradication of poverty should be part and parcel of efforts to achieve sustainable development.

Egypt, which had participated in the negotiations on the GEF, was concerned about the slow-down in its replenishment, which had been a phenomenon since 1994, he said. The Convention to Combat Desertification should be put on an equal footing with the other environment-related legal instruments and its financing should be given priority. The problem of drought had a great impact on a large number of populations. Parties which had signed the Convention should ratify it as Egypt had done. He hoped the tenth session of the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee next January would reach agreement on the proposed resource mechanism.

FAWZI H. AL-SULTAN, President of the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD), said the Fund was supporting countries to implement the Convention to Combat Desertification through projects such as those that sought to provide the micro-economic environment for farmers to help themselves. An IFAD special programme in the Niger, involving the testing of farmer-initiated, traditional soil and water conservation techniques, had resulted in substantial improvements in yield, both under normal and deficient rainfall conditions. Support had also been provided to the interim secretariat of the Convention to ensure participation of low-income groups in the formulation of national action programmes.

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

He said the Global Mechanism provided for in the Convention should go beyond a clearing-house function to actively solicit and facilitate the participation of financing institutions and the private sector in implementing the Convention. It should foster innovation in blending public and private finance and should have a privileged relationship with one or more financing institutions that could provide resources. The IFAD had accepted the invitation to consider housing the Global Mechanism and looked forward to working closely with all concerned to devise an effective institutional configuration for doing do so.

ABDERRAHMANE MEROUANE (Algeria) said he supported the statement by Costa Rica on behalf of the Group of 77. The very survival of many people in Africa was threatened by desertification. Therefore, the issue of desertification must be accorded the attention it deserved in the United Nations. He expressed gratification at the submission of the fiftieth instrument of ratification for the Convention and called on the remaining signatory States to ratify it.

He also noted the interest shown by various governments to host the permanent secretariat of the Convention. The commitment to the Convention must be "that of everyone, every day". In that context, the World Food Summit to be held in Rome next month was important. He emphasized that the Global Mechanism would hold a central place in the implementation of the Convention. He called on all international institutions to become active in combating desertification. Algeria's semi-arid climate made it vulnerable to desertification, and to combat such desertification government bodies and civil society were working together, he concluded.

EVIATAR MANOR (Israel) said 60 per cent of the area of his country was covered by desert. Israel had developed expertise that had transformed the desert into a habitable, food-producing environment, as well as an industrial and tourism centre. It had shared its experience in that field with countries of Asia, Africa and Latin America. It had established an International Centre for Combating Desertification, which was engaged in all areas of desert research.

Israel had also held a symposium on sustainable water management in arid and semi-arid regions last year, he said. That symposium had been attended by experts from 30 developing countries.

MICHAEL ODEVALL (Sweden), reading a statement on behalf of BO KJELLEN, the Chairman of the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee on Desertification, said two years had passed since the signing of the Convention to Combat Desertification in October 1994. On 26 September this year, the fiftieth instrument of ratification had been deposited, thus ensuring that the Convention would enter into force before the end of the year. However, the Convention was not sufficiently well known. More work would be needed before the Convention could make a real impact on development cooperative practices.

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

Both the World Bank and the GEF had underlined that they were taking decisive steps to support the implementation of the Convention. The ninth session of the Negotiating Committee had included a special panel discussion on women, which demonstrated that women were not a peripheral or marginal group. In fact, their role in agricultural production placed them at the very heart of the Convention.

The first Conference of the Parties to the Convention would be held next year in Rome, he said. Considerable progress had been made with regard to scientific and technical cooperation, reporting requirements and financial rules. However, a number of administrative issues remained to be settled. Among those was the question of location of the secretariat and the institutions which would support secretariat services. Moreover, there was a need for continued negotiation on financial issues, in particular the functions of the Global Mechanism and the decision on the organization which should host that facility.

JOULDYZ AKICHEVA (Kazakstan) said that her Government was increasing public awareness on problems associated with land degradation and desertification and the strategy to combat them. Her country was interested in promoting cooperation in a number of areas, such as protection of the territory near the Aral Sea from dusty storms and salt drifts, realization of effective technological measures to rehabilitate desert pastures, forest reclamation on the dried bottom of the Aral Sea, and the rehabilitation of ecological zones in the drought-affected areas. She said that as a result of overgrazing and droughts about 30 per cent of all pastures in her country had been affected by land degradation and drought.

Introduction of desert pastures management could promote long-term conservation in the country, she said. Her delegation believed that cooperation in the area of ecology should become one of the priorities of the United Nations and it was its expectation that that would prevail during the next session of the Intergovernmental Committee.

MACHIVENYIKA T. MAPURANGA (Zimbabwe) said that countries that had demonstrated a capacity for sustainable utilization of their natural resources deserved recognition and should have the full benefits of their efforts. His delegation looked forward to fruitful discussions at the June 1997 Conference on the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora. Zimbabwe had adopted measures to enhance popular participation in conservation. The benefits derived from the management and marketing of natural resources were ploughed back into the development of the communities concerned.

He briefed the Committee on the World Solar Summit held recently in Zimbabwe, noting that the selection and use of cleaner and environmentally friendly types of energy sources was more urgent than ever before. He hoped the financial mechanism for the implementation of the world solar programme

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

adopted at the Harare Summit would be identified. Fossil-based fuels had a finite life-span but solar energy would be there "as long as the sun shines", he concluded.

HAMID ELTINAY (Sudan) said his Government had taken measures to combat drought and desertification, including the formulation of national strategies to deal with unhealthy grazing. A national network of tree-planting had been undertaken. Sudan had signed the Convention on Biological Diversity and had organized workshops and seminars to help prepare a national strategy to implement it. It attached importance to the agreements reached at UNCED. It was creating infrastructures in the rural areas to promote rural development. Programmes had also been introduced to raise awareness among the youth and women on environment and development issues. Sudan was collaborating with the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and was in the process of enacting laws on the environment.

The special session of the Assembly on Agenda 21 should adopt an integrated outlook on all issues, also taking account of the outcomes of the recent various United Nations conferences as well as the forthcoming World Food Summit in Rome, he said. His delegation believed the necessary political will and additional financial resources were required to deal with environmental problems.

CECILIA REBONG (Philippines) said her country was committed "to clean as we grow" as President Fidel Ramos had stated. Recently, the Government had decided not to approve the building and operation of a cement complex because the proposed site was a world-class marine sanctuary. Although the investment was expected to produce 1000 jobs and increased export earnings, the decision was taken because the proposed project would have endangered the Bolinao-Anda reefs.

For the Philippines the eradication of poverty was the most important challenge to sustainable development, she said. To that extent it had embarked on the implementation of a social reform agenda to combat poverty, to control population, to invest in the health sector and to improve urban housing and development. It recognized the role that major groups such as concerned non-governmental organizations, women, marine scientists and fisherfolk played in sustainable development and had accorded them appropriate place in its decision-making process. Eco-tourism meant preservation of the biosystem in major tourist centres. That could lead to economic growth along with the protection of the environment.

RI GWANG NAM (Democratic People's Republic of Korea) said that to implement Agenda 21 satisfactorily, it was imperative to create a convenient climate, as well as conditions for protection of the environment and sustainable development at both national and international levels and to discharge common but differentiated responsibilities. However, it was regrettable that commitments made under Agenda 21 were not being observed. In

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

particular, the question of provision of financial resources and transfer of environmentally sound technology remained unresolved.

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea attached great importance to the implementation of Agenda 21 and it had formulated its own strategy to implement it, he said. Moreover, it had already deposited ratification instruments for the Convention on Biodiversity and the Convention on Climate Change.

MOHAMMAD JABBARY (Iran) said it was a matter of concern that no agreement had been reached on the mandate and functions of the Global Mechanism of the Convention to Combat Desertification. He stressed that the Global Mechanism should serve as an engine for mobilizing and channelling resources to the affected developing countries and noted that others had emphasized the mobilization of domestic resources.

Calling for a demonstration of political will to effectively implement the Convention, he said Iran was one of the developing countries most affected by desertification. To that end, it had tried to increase public awareness on the issue and to develop rural areas to stem rural-urban migration, to stabilize sand dunes and to restore degraded lands. It had also been active at the regional and international levels in combating the problem of desertification.

BRUCE NAMAKANDO (Zambia) said the 1997 special session of the Assembly should not renegotiate Agenda 21 but find the modalities to enhance its implementation, with the need for technical and financial resources at the centre of such efforts. Developing countries should be helped to participate fully in the preparatory process and in the session itself. Zambia had not been impressed with the pace of the negotiations in the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee on Desertification. Political will had been lacking, especially on financial and institutional arrangements.

The ninth session of the Negotiating Committee had failed to reach consensus on issues which should have been agreed upon at the eighth session, he said. The result was that pressure had been placed on the forthcoming tenth session to finalize all the major outstanding issues. He asked whether that was a plan to water down the final outcome of the negotiations, adding that a related issue was the tendency to relegate the Convention on Desertification to second-rate status compared with other environment-related conventions.

JAVIER OCHOA (Bolivia) said his Government was among the first to establish, soon after UNCED, a ministry to implement the agreements reached. A national programme called "plan for everyone" which focused on the concept of sustainable development agreed to in Rio, had been adopted. It was being presented as a Bolivian model for sustainable development because of the popular participation of the people as well as multilateral and other

Second Committee - 1a - Press Release GA/EF/2733 15th Meeting (AM) 24 October 1996

assistance in its execution. Lessons learned from its implementation would be forwarded to the Commission on Sustainable Development for the benefit of other countries. He regretted that commitments on resource flows made at Rio had not been met and stressed the need for shared responsibility.

He added that agreements that would be reached at the forthcoming Americas summit on sustainable development in Bolivia would be an important contribution to the 1997 special session of the Assembly on Agenda 21.

ARBA DIALLO, Executive Secretary of the Interim Secretariat to the International Convention to Combat Desertification, said he hoped that the member countries at the tenth session of the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee on Desertification would be able to decide on matters related to the Global Mechanism. Speaking on the ratification of the Convention to Combat Desertification, he noted that 54 ratifications had come in thus far and expressed the hope that the instruments of ratification would strengthen the spirit of solidarity.

SAMUEL NYAMBI, Director, UNDP Office to Combat Desertification and Drought (UNSO) said the global imperative to fight desertification had been embodied in the Convention. Now, there was a need for an impetus at the country level. He stressed that the actions of international agencies alone would not be enough. Speaking on why the Global Mechanism was important, he said it would provide a new and innovative mechanism for implementing the Convention. However, to enable it to serve that function, it would have to be placed on a firm footing.

ARBA DIALLO, Executive Secretary of the Interim Secretariat to the International Convention to Combat Desertification, said he hoped that the member countries at the tenth session of the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee on Desertification would be able to decide on matters related to the Global Mechanism. Speaking on the ratification of the Convention to Combat Desertification, he noted that 54 ratifications had come in thus far, and he expressed the hope that the instruments of ratification would strengthen the spirit of solidarity.

SAMUEL NYAMBI, Director, UNDP Office to Combat Desertification and Drought (UNSO) said the global imperative to fight desertification had been embodied in the Convention. Now, there was a need for an impetus at the country level. He stressed that the actions of international agencies alone would not be enough. Speaking on why the Global Mechanism was important, he said it would provide a new and innovative mechanism for implementing the Convention. However, to enable it to serve that function, it would have to be placed on a firm footing.

* *** *

For information media. Not an official record.