In progress at UNHQ

9398th Meeting (AM)
SC/15387

Democratic People’s Republic of Korea Increasingly Repressing Its Citizen’s Human Rights, Freedoms, High Commissioner Warns Security Council

Several Members Say Such Issues Poses No Threat to International Peace, Stability

Rarely has the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea been “more painfully closed” to the outside world than it is today, a senior United Nations official told the Security Council today, as several members opposed the organ’s consideration of the human rights situation in that country, as it does not pose a threat to international peace and security.

Volker Türk, United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, told the 15‑member Council that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea’s policies, initially linked to containing the COVID-19 pandemic, have grown even more extensive as the pandemic has waned.  Information collected indicates increasing repression of the rights to freedoms of expression, movement, the persistence of widespread forced labour practices and a worsening situation for economic rights.

Within the country, markets and other private means of generating income, have been largely shut down, and such activity is increasingly criminalized, he said.  “Given the limits of State-run economic institutions, many people appear to be facing extreme hunger,” he emphasized.  People’s fear of State surveillance, arrest, interrogation and detention has increased.  Homes are subjected to random searches and people are encouraged to report on each other. Punishments for minor infractions can be severe, possibly amounting to gross human rights violations.

Thousands of enforced disappearances have been perpetrated by the State over the past 70 years, including of Koreans from both north and south of the demilitarized zone, he said.  In the absence of meaningful action, he encouraged action from Member States or international fora, including the International Criminal Court.  Many of the violations stem directly from, or support, the increasing militarization of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, he added.

Elizabeth Salmón, United Nations Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, said that, while 2023 marks the seventieth anniversary of the Korean Armistice Agreement signed in 1953, there is no visible sign of peacemaking.  The country’s leadership has caused the systematic abduction of its people and other nationals, notably from the Republic of Korea and Japan, creating cycles of separated families, and triggering economic sanctions, with a detrimental impact on its own people.

Voicing particular concern over the situation of women and girls in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, she noted the former are detained in inhumane conditions and subjected to torture, forced labour and gender-based violence by State officials.  “Preparation for any possible peacemaking process needs to include women as decision makers,” she stressed.

Ilhyeok Kim, a representative of civil society, shared his personal story of having been born and raised in a small village in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.  He recalled being forced to do unpaid labour from a young age, adding:  “The Government turns our blood and sweat into a luxurious life for the leadership and missiles that blast our hard work into the sky.”  The money spent on just one missile could feed the people of his country for three months, but the Government “is only concerned with maintaining their power”.

People in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea have no human rights, he told the Council, recalling that when his family left for the Republic of Korea to the south, his father’s sister who remained was arrested, tortured and put in a political prison camp.  “North Koreans have a right to choose lives of dignity for ourselves, so stop committing such crimes against our people and choose a path of humanity,” he appealed to that country’s Government.

In the ensuing discussion, many Council members expressed deep concern over the humanitarian situation facing the people of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.  They urged the Government to comply with human-rights-related Council resolutions and UN instruments.

The representative of the United States, Council President for August, speaking in her national capacity, said that the Government of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has committed systematic and gross human rights violations, which, in many instances, entail crimes against humanity. “We must give voice to the voiceless,” she urged, noting the 80,000 individuals being detained in political prison camps in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.

Japan’s delegate said that the dreadful human rights situation shows no signs of improvement as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea’s regime imposes its illegal missile and nuclear programmes upon its people.  Citing the launch of 70 or more missiles in 2022, and 4 intercontinental ballistic missiles in 2023, he said that the intertwining of human rights violations with international peace and security could not be more apparent, and central to the Council’s mission.

While some Council members echoed Japan’s sentiment in expressing full support for the holding of a meeting on the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, other members stressed that, in this instance, country-specific human rights questions should be dealt with by the relevant UN human rights bodies.

Ghana’s delegate expressed “reservations on the Council’s further consideration of this matter” and urged the appropriate UN human rights bodies and mechanisms with existing mandates to continue to gather all available information and data and report on the human rights situation of the citizens of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.

China’s representative also opposed the Council’s consideration of the human rights situation in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.  The Council should play a constructive role in resuming talks; however, having it consider the human rights situation in the country is irresponsible, unconstructive and an abuse of its power, he said.

The representative of the Russian Federation said that today’s meeting “is nothing other than a cynical and hypocritical attempt” by the United States and its allies to advance their own political agenda.  The United States, Japan and the Republic of Korea continue their military activity off the Korean Peninsula.  He also warned against the UN indulging the policy of the United States and its allies to use human rights as a pretext for interfering in internal affairs.

The Republic of Korea’s delegate said that instead of addressing its critical food shortages, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea regime has continually squandered its scarce resources to advance its weapons-of-mass-destruction technology.  There are roughly 100,000 people detained in political prison camps enduring a life of acute misery with only the remotest chance of being released alive, he added.  The Republic of Korea, during its upcoming term in the Council, will continue to make every effort to improve the situation by building upon the momentum gained at today’s meeting.

THE SITUATION IN THE DEMOCRATIC PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF KOREA

Briefings

VOLKER TÜRK, United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, said that rarely has the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea been “more painfully closed” to the outside world than it is today.  This is a result of Government policies that were initially linked to containing the COVID-19 pandemic, but which have grown even more extensive as the pandemic has waned. Information collected indicates increasing repression of the rights to freedoms of expression, privacy and movement, the persistence of widespread forced labour practices and a worsening situation for economic and social rights.  Anyone who views so-called “reactionary ideology and culture” — a term used for information from abroad, in particular the Republic of Korea — may now face imprisonment of 5 to 15 years.  Any person found to have distributed such content faces life imprisonment or even the death penalty.

Widespread imposition of forced labour by the State has continued during the recent border closures, he said, underscoring that the “profoundly disturbing” practice of forced mobilization has extended to children.  Within the country, markets and other private means of generating income, have been largely shut down, and such activity is increasingly criminalized.  “Given the limits of State-run economic institutions, many people appear to be facing extreme hunger, as well as acute shortages of medication,” he said.  There are reports that starvation exists in parts of the country.  Meanwhile, people’s fear of State surveillance, arrest, interrogation and detention has increased.  Their rights to privacy are systematically violated.  Homes are subjected to random searches.  Neighbours and family members are encouraged to report on each other.  Punishments for even minor infractions can be severe, possibly amounting to gross human rights violations.

Thousands of enforced disappearances have been perpetrated by the State over the past 70 years, including of Koreans from both north and south of the demilitarized zone, he continued.  The north-south cross-border family reunion scheme has been cruelly stalled since 2018 due to political tensions.  For all the victims of violations and crimes, accountability is essential.  However, in the absence of meaningful action, he encouraged action from Member States or international fora, including the International Criminal Court.  Further, he urged all States to refrain from forcibly repatriating North Koreans, and to provide them with the required protections. Many of the violations stem directly from, or support, the increasing militarization of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.  Sustainable peace can only be built by advancing human rights, and its corollaries:  reconciliation, inclusion and justice, he recalled.

ELIZABETH SALMÓN, United Nations Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, stressed that the human rights of people in that country “continue to have deteriorated under the current state of tensions and unprecedented isolation”.  The prolonged border shutdown, which started in early 2020, has brought increased hardship, with informal markets significantly repressed, depriving a vast number of people from their livelihoods and preventing many from buying food.  She noted that some people are starving while others having died due to a combination of malnutrition, diseases and lack of access to health care.  While 2023 marks the seventieth anniversary of the Korean Armistice Agreement signed in 1953, there is no visible sign of peacemaking.  On the contrary, “Songun”, the Military First Policy, gives priority to the allocation of resources to the military, thereby reducing the limited resources for respecting and fulfilling people’s human rights.

She emphasized that the country’s leadership continues to demand that its citizens tighten their belts, strengthens gender stereotypes and creates the ongoing demand for forced labour.  It has further caused the systematic abduction of its people and other nationals, notably from the Republic of Korea and Japan, creating cycles of separated families, and triggering economic sanctions, with a detrimental impact on the people.  “The international community must look again at the use and impact of such tools,” she affirmed.  Voicing particular concern over the situation of women and girls, she noted the former are detained in inhuman conditions and subjected to torture and ill-treatment, forced labour and gender-based violence by State officials.  Female escapees who are forcibly repatriated to the country are subjected to invasive body searches for money hidden in their body cavities and genitals — while gender-based violence, including domestic and sexual violence, is prevalent.

Noting that victims have no access to reporting or protection mechanisms, she called on third countries to refrain from forced repatriation complying with the principle of non-refoulement.  She further urged Member States of the Council to support victims and civil society organizations in both judicial and non‑judicial accountability efforts.  “Preparation for any possible peacemaking process needs to include women as decision makers and this process needs to start now,” she affirmed. She called for a set number of country visits each year by special procedures mandate holders, including access to detention facilities, and a set number of family reunions per year — with implementation of the recommendations that Pyongyang accepted during the universal periodic review of the Human Rights Council.  “We cannot remain indifferent.  The pain is there,” she stressed.

ILHYEOK KIM, civil society representative, said that he was born and raised in a small village in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, and was forced to do unpaid labour from a young age. “When I should have been studying hard, instead, I was soaked in sweat while planting and harvesting crops,” he said, adding that most of those grain crops went to the military.  Extreme pandemic restrictions have made lives harder than ever and people are punished just for accessing foreign information.  “When we starve, the North Korean Government has no policy to help us,” he said.  “The Government turns our blood and sweat into a luxurious life for the leadership and missiles that blast our hard work into the sky.”  The money spent on just one missile could feed the people of his country for three months, but the Government “is only concerned with maintaining their power, developing nuclear weapons and creating propaganda to justify their actions”.

People there cannot express any dissatisfaction to their Government, he pointed out.  They have no human rights, no freedom of expression and no rule of law. Those who disagree are taken to a political prison camp where they will do hard labour until they die, or they are simply shot to death.  The Government has eradicated basic human rights from his homeland.  When his family left for the Republic of Korea to the south, his father’s sister who remained was arrested, tortured and put in a political prison camp.  She had a five-year-old son and a three-year-old daughter, and they were forced to say their last goodbye.  Calling out the names of all delegations seated in the Council, he expressed hope that people of his country can someday freely travel around the world and meet the people of these countries.  He went on to urge the Council to act now so that, when they look back, they can say that they did the right thing at that time, stressing that the Council should continue to discuss the human rights situation in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, adding that no tyranny lasts forever.  “North Koreans have a right to choose lives of dignity for ourselves, so stop committing such crimes against our people and choose a path of humanity,” he appealed to his Government.

Statements

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD (United States), Council President for August, spoke in her national capacity to underscore that the human-rights situation in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea — “one of the most repressive and totalitarian States in the world” — is undeniably a matter of international peace and security that demands the Council’s attention.  The Government has committed systematic, widespread and gross human rights violations, which, in many instances, entail crimes against humanity.  The country continues to hold more than 80,000 individuals in political prison camps, where they are widely subjected to arbitrary and summary execution, torture, starvation, gender-based violence, forced abortion and forced labour.  It has also engaged in acts of transnational repression against its own citizens and foreign nationals.  Pyongyang’s activities abroad have included assassination, surveillance, abduction and forced repatriation — sometimes without the consent of other Governments, demonstrating its lack of respect for State sovereignty.  “We must give voice to the voiceless,” she urged, calling for a better future for humanity.

FERIT HOXHA (Albania) said that this meeting provides a moment to shed a bit of light on the darkness of a country where the regime does not tolerate pluralism and where independent media, civil society organizations and trade unions are banned.  “This meeting is a strong message of solidarity with an entire population trapped inside a countrywide prison,” he said.  This meeting is also a call to a regime whose priority and obsession is militarization — “more weapons, more missiles, more war-mongering policies”, he continued.  The unlawful weapons of mass destruction and ballistic problem are developed, and “we know it, in open disregard of the Security Council decisions”.  Shielding the regime means being against the people. “Weapons will never change the country.  They will never feed the population.  They will never bring prosperity,” he stressed.

ISHIKANE KIMIHIRO (Japan) noted that over a decade ago, a UN commission of inquiry on human rights in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea identified systematic gross violations in the country, many of them labelled crimes against humanity — and the same troubling patterns persist today.  The dreadful human rights situation shows no signs of improvement, and “the reason for this stagnation is clear” as the regime imposes its illegal missile and nuclear programmes upon its people.  He warned about “another facet of its disturbing scheme” — the exploitation of its people overseas, sent to foreign shores, trapped in a life of servitude.  He recalled reports showing that nearly half of that country’s people are undernourished — a staggering 12 million citizens. Citing the launch of 70 or more missiles in 2022, and 4 intercontinental ballistic missiles in 2023, he affirmed that the intertwining of human rights violations with international peace and security could not be more apparent, and central to the Council’s mission.  Noting that many Japanese citizens were kidnapped by agents of Pyongyang, along with nationals of the Republic of Korea, China, France and other States, he urged the international community to achieve the speedy return of every abductee.

NATHALIE BROADHURST ESTIVAL (France), expressing her full support for holding this meeting, urged the Council to continue to address the massive and systematic violations of human rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, given that they undermine regional and international peace and security.  While Pyongyang continues its nuclear and ballistic programmes in defiance of many Council resolutions, the human rights situation in that country remains very worrying.  The population continues to suffer from food insecurity, alarming detention conditions and dire sanitary conditions.  Nearly 20 per cent of children there are stunted.  Despite Pyongyang’s refusal to engage with the various United Nations human rights mechanisms, the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) and the Special Rapporteur continue to document violations in that country, she stressed, calling for continued support for their mandates.  Calling for the return of UN personnel to that country, she also demanded full, safe and unhindered humanitarian access nationwide.

HERNÁN PÉREZ LOOSE (Ecuador) recalled that the Council has condemned the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea “for manufacturing nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles instead of ensuring the well-being of its people”.  Stressing that “there are no good hands in which nuclear weapons can fall” — as “all nuclear weapons are reprehensible” — he highlighted that global expenditure on these weapons exceeded $82 billion in 2022.  This occurred against a backdrop of growing food insecurity and famine throughout the world.  The continued deterioration of the human rights situation of the country’s population is in contrast with the arms race and nuclear programmes that exacerbate tensions on the Korean Peninsula and worldwide.  Accordingly, he urged Pyongyang to cease its human rights violations and to end its weapons-of-mass-destruction and ballistic-missile programmes in a complete, verifiable and irreversible fashion.

HAROLD ADLAI AGYEMAN (Ghana) said that securing the reunion of separated families is one way of building trust among the Korean people and can also play an important role in promoting reconciliation on the Korean Peninsula.  Ghana notes the increasing challenges of gathering independent and credible information about human rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea since the outbreak of the pandemic.  While concerned by the human rights and humanitarian situation in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Ghana firmly holds the view that, in this instance, country specific human rights questions should be dealt with by the relevant UN human rights bodies.  “We therefore express reservations on the Council’s further consideration of this matter and urge the appropriate UN human rights bodies and mechanisms with existing mandates to continue to gather all available information and data and report on the human rights situation of the North Korean people,” he added.

GHASAQ YOUSIF ABDALLA SHAHEEN (United Arab Emirates) condemned the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea for continuing to develop its nuclear and ballistic capabilities — a clear threat to neighbouring States and international peace and security.  Urging Pyongyang to cease its flagrant violations and comply with relevant Council resolutions, she recalled States’ fundamental responsibility to protect human rights on their territories and within their jurisdictions. She also cited “highly worrying” United Nations reports, noting that 40 per cent of the country’s people suffer from acute malnutrition and 20 per cent of its children suffer from stunting.  She therefore called for cooperation between Pyongyang and UN human rights mechanisms, voicing hope that humanitarian organizations can return to the country to assist those in need — with priority given to channelling its limited resources to the safety of its people. It is imperative to end the cycle of confrontation, stagnation and escalation through diplomacy, she stressed.

ADRIAN HAURI (Switzerland) said serious and systematic violations of human rights are continuing in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. The resources allocated to the costly military and nuclear programmes are sorely lacking to meet the needs of the population, which is facing increased food insecurity and impoverishment. In addition to the Government’s political choices, this is also due to the lack of rapid and unhindered access for humanitarian actors, which must be guaranteed.  Surveillance, coercion and fear are used to stifle freedom of expression, association and peaceful assembly.  Torture, arbitrary detention and the forced removal of political prisoners to camps are just a few examples of serious and systematic human rights violations.  Voicing concern over the situation of women and girls from the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, he underscored the need for effective protection of victims and survivors of sexual and gender-based violence, as well as a policy of prevention.

DOMINGOS ESTÊVÃO FERNANDES (Mozambique) said that, since its inception, the United Nations has put collective faith in human rights, the protection of which is of the utmost importance to the maintenance of international peace and security.  On the eve of seventy-fifth anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, his country calls for full compliance with human-rights-related Council resolutions and UN instruments.  The situation on the Korean Peninsula deserves Council attention.  It is imperative to build bridges for dialogue. Mozambique supports all measures taken by the Council and the wider UN membership to ease tensions and initiate dialogue towards a lasting peace.  All efforts of this Council should focus on promoting dialogue and building trust between all parties.

SÉRGIO FRANÇA DANESE (Brazil) said that debates on human rights issues should take place in the appropriate fora.  Those discussions are most effective when they avoid selectivity and seek to implement rights for all.  Recognizing that rule 2 provides for the presidency to call a meeting at any member’s request, the object of such a meeting must be within the mandate of the Security Council.  Brazil remains concerned about the persistent reports of systematic violations of human rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and has supported resolutions concerning that country’s human rights situation both in the Human Rights Council and the General Assembly's Third Committee (Social, Humanitarian and Cultural).  Expressing concern about the Panel of Experts’ findings that the sanctions regime has had unintended impacts on the humanitarian situation, he reiterated his call for a sustained process of engagement with Pyongyang.  Only through dialogue can many issues in this file begin to be addressed.  “Isolation does not help the people of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, nor does it bring us closer to our goal of a Korean Peninsula that is peaceful, stable and free of nuclear weapons,” he said.

GENG SHUANG (China) opposed the Council’s consideration of the human rights situation in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea as it does not pose a threat to international peace and security.  The Council should focus on fulfilling its responsibility under the Charter of the United Nations, striving to promote peaceful settlement of disputes.  The situation on the Korean Peninsula remains tense, he observed, urging all parties to exercise calm and to restrain from mutual provocations.  The Council should play a constructive role in resuming talks; however, having the Council consider the human rights situation in the country is irresponsible, unconstructive and an abuse of its power. Relevant countries should demonstrate political will and take practical actions to respond to Pyongyang’s reasonable concerns and make efforts and create conditions for the resumption of talks. He underscored his country’s commitment to the maintenance of peace and stability, denuclearization and resolution through dialogue on the Peninsula.

FRANCESCA MARIA GATT (Malta) said that persistent human rights violations in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea are inextricably linked to the threats posed by that country to international peace and security. Civilians there continue to live in a climate of Government-induced fear and the humanitarian situation remains dire, with severe levels of food insecurity and large segments of the population enduring chronic malnutrition — especially children.  Pyongyang must allow international humanitarian organizations rapid, unhindered access to the most vulnerable groups, including prisoners. Moreover, arbitrary arrests, detentions and forced disappearances continue, and the Government subjects women in detention to inhumane conditions that include torture, forced labour, sexual violence and deprivation of food.  Pyongyang must be held accountable for its abhorrent practices against its own people, she underscored, including the trafficking of women and girls and the exploitation of children.

DMITRY A. POLYANSKIY (Russian Federation) said that today’s meeting “is nothing other than a cynical and hypocritical attempt” by the United States and its allies to advance their own political agenda and distract attention from the escalatory actions of Washington, D.C., and its allies in the region.  The United States, Japan and the Republic of Korea continue their military activity off the Korean Peninsula, and recently, the world witnessed the appearance of a United States nuclear submarine in the region.  Such events only further confirm that refraining from escalatory action and returning to the negotiating table is the only possible solution, he said, drawing attention to the plan to settle the situation on the Korean Peninsula advanced by his country and China.  Further, he warned against the UN indulging the policy of the United States and its allies to use human rights as a pretext for interfering in the internal affairs of States.

JAMES KARIUKI (United Kingdom) stressed that Pyongyang’s illegal nuclear and ballistic-weapons programmes are financed through forced labour, with workers sent overseas — often under conditions akin to modern slavery. The regime fails to acknowledge the Report of the Commission of Inquiry on Human Rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, which concluded that wide-ranging human rights violations taking place in that country may amount to crimes against humanity.  Further, recognizing the suffering of other nationals who have been abducted by the country, he called for their return.  “Forced repatriations, State-sponsored abductions and enforced disappearances demand action,” he affirmed, reminding all Member States to respect the principle of non-refoulement and not forcibly return those who have escaped the country to face threats to their safety and human rights. He also reminded Pyongyang that its restrictive COVID-19 measures must be proportionate — not used to further constrain the freedom of its citizens.

MICHEL XAVIER BIANG (Gabon) condemned all infringements on human rights, as well as attempts to politicize the issue or treat it through a lens of double standards.  Human rights situations, including that in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, must be addressed in the UN Human Rights Council and the Third Committee (Social, Humanitarian and Cultural) — “the bodies with a remit par excellence within the UN system to examine those violations”, he stressed.  He further emphasized the need to reach a settlement regarding the military situation of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea through diplomatic channels.  Voicing concern over the radicalization and hardening of positions — and unprecedented escalation — he reiterated his delegation’s opposition to “missile diplomacy and the inflammatory rhetoric that underpins it”.  The international community must prioritize dialogue and negotiation to end the threat hovering over the Korean Peninsula, he urged.

Mr. ISHIKANE (Japan), taking the floor a second time, cited a reference by one member of the Council to his country’s security policy regarding nuclear weapons.  “I want to make the following point crystal clear,” he stressed:  “The three non-nuclear principles — not producing, not possessing and not allowing the entry of nuclear weapons — continues to be our basic policy.”

JOONKOOK HWANG (Republic of Korea), recalling that, in a letter earlier in 2023, 61 UN Member States and the European Union — double the number from 2022 — requested the Council to remain seized of the human rights situation in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, in pursuit of a public meeting.  He expressed his gratitude that this request was accepted, after waiting more than five years.  The Council is not addressing human rights violations in any conflict or war zones, but in a most tightly controlled State, where a perfectly functioning totalitarian system controls the physical, mental and intellectual activities of its entire population daily and violations amounting to crimes against humanity are taking place.  Quoting from the landmark 2014 report of the commission of inquiry on human rights in that country, he said that “the gravity, scale and nature of these violations reveal a State that does not have any parallel in the contemporary world”. The report recommended that the Council should refer the situation to the International Criminal Court and should adopt targeted sanctions against those who appear to be most responsible for crimes against humanity.

Over the last year and a half, Pyongyang has launched 12 intercontinental ballistic missiles, he warned.  Instead of addressing its critical food shortages, the regime has continually squandered its scarce resources on a dangerous show of force and advancement of its weapons of mass destruction technology.  Moreover, domestic and overseas forced labour under heavy surveillance has served as a major source of funds for the regime’s unlawful weapons programme.  There are roughly 100,000 people detained in political prison camps enduring a life of acute misery with only the remotest chance of being released alive.  Furthermore, the regime is a perpetrator of human rights violations beyond its territory, including abductions of people in other countries.  The Republic of Korea, during its upcoming term in the Council, will continue to make every effort to improve the situation — both in human rights and non-proliferation — by building upon the momentum gained at today’s meeting, he added.

For information media. Not an official record.