PRESS BRIEFING BY SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE ON HUMAN RIGHTS IN CAMBODIA

Press Briefing

PRESS BRIEFING BY SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE ON HUMAN RIGHTS IN CAMBODIA

The main issue in Cambodia was the continuous problem of impunity, Thomas Hammarberg, the Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Human Rights in Cambodia, told correspondents at a Headquarters press briefing today.

Serious crimes, often with a political connotation, including killings, took place without anyone being arrested or prosecuted, Mr. Hammarberg went on to say. That was, of course, a lack of justice in itself which also created an unhealthy atmosphere of fear in the society. None of the cases that he had reported had led to any prosecutions or anyone being sentenced.

The Special Representative said that, on the other hand, as he had reported to the Third Committee (Social, Humanitarian and Cultural), there were some signs from the Government of Cambodia that it was beginning to take the problem more seriously. A Government committee on human rights had been set up which, according to the leading politician and Prime Minister, Hun Sen, had been established to supplement the police force and remedy some of the problems of its incompetence. The Government was therefore doing its own investigations and relating to the Special Representative as a sort of dialogue partner.

The Government had also asked for international assistance in starting to tackle the problem, Mr. Hammarberg continued. He had been asked to find "someone who could give them advice on criminal investigation techniques, including the forensic aspect". The Government had requested an expert who could come there and draw up the architecture for the whole system in relation to the judiciary, the police and the military. That would entail examining the interrelations between those bodies, the divisions of labour, the confusion that existed between the various police forces, their authority, and the corruption and other problems in the court system.

Continuing, the Special Representative said that expert could clearly define where the problems were and what the experiences of other countries were in trying to remedy such issues. It was a huge task, but it had been requested by the Cambodian Government and "we will of course do our best to meet it because we want a dialogue on this".

Addressing the second aspect of the problem of impunity, the Special Representative said that nothing had been done so far about the horrendous crimes committed between 1975 and 1979 by the Khmer Rouge. No one had been arrested. "There hasn't even been an apology, even by those who have recently defected to the Government side". After many years of United Nations silence on Cambodia, the Secretary-General, in July, had agreed to the Special Representative's proposal that a group of experts should be appointed to go to

Cambodia and look at the evidence. There was a lot of documentation about what had happened. Like the Nazis, the Khmer Rouge had made notes, he observed.

Mr. Hammarberg said the group of experts should try to evaluate the evidence and see how it would stand up in any kind of international proceedings, and then relate that to the various possibilities regarding what standards to use. The Genocide convention did offer some problems in that context. That was one aspect of the task for the experts. The other aspect was to consult more deeply than he had been able to do with the Cambodians -- Government leaders, former leaders, opposition leaders, religious leaders and other representatives of the society -- to try to find what they were prepared to do in the process.

The Special Representative stressed that it was important for the experts to determine how far Cambodians were prepared to go and what they wanted. How important were the proceedings to them? he asked. His impression was that they wanted something to happen. But he wondered if they wanted it to take place in Cambodia itself or if they would be happier with something that took place in the Hague, which was another proposal that been put forward. If the proceedings took place in Cambodia, would there be any guarantees for security and would they be at all realistic?

The end result would hopefully be a proposal from the experts to the Secretary-General and the Cambodian Government by next January on "how the international community and the Cambodian society would begin to move on this", continued Mr. Hammarberg. "It may not end up in anything -- it may be just too difficult". However, he had hopes that something would happen. The King of Cambodia, Norodom Sihanouk, had been very enthusiastic and had said last week that he wanted the initiative to happen. Prior to that, the King had stated that he also had "personal interests in this". "I was after all a head of State for part of the period and I have an interest in clarifying my own role in this in front of some kind of tribunal", he said.

The Special Representative told correspondents that the de facto leader of Cambodia today, Hun Sen, had said that he was also very much in favour of the proposed proceedings. He had fought for 20 years for some kind of justice after all the violations. He had been disappointed about the United Nations specificity on the whole issue and welcomed at long last the initiative by the Organization in response to the Cambodian request.

Other leaders, including those in the opposition, also wanted the proposed initiative to happen, continued Mr. Hammarberg. "We should not be too cynical about this. I've seen many cynical remarks in the Media and by Governments abroad. I think we should take the Cambodians at their words. They have asked for this. We are responding by sending eminent experts to discuss the issue with them, and it may end up in something that is very important for the Cambodian society". They were no different from any other country when it came to wanting some kind of justice after crimes of the type

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that had taken place in Cambodia. "The estimate we have is that about 1.7 million people died between 1975 and 1979".

The Special Representative said there were continued problems with prison conditions. The situation in that respect was very bad. In some of the prisons people starved because there was just not enough food. Even there, however, the Government had begun to act. There were still reports about cases of torture. In previous cases where torture had been proven, nothing had been remedied. Again, no one had been arrested for those crimes and human rights violations. Another problem was that the police were very happy to shoot when they made arrests. A number of killings had taken place in the act of arrest. Something must be done to restrain the excessive use of lethal weapons by the police in such situations.

Expressing his concern about children's rights, Mr. Hammarberg told correspondents that the education system in Cambodia was in shambles. That was an appeal to the international community to direct its assistance towards that area. Child prostitution was very bad in the country. Of 12,000 prostitutes counted in Phnom Penh, one third were estimated to be children. According to samples, half of them were believed to be infected with the HIV virus. The virus was a real problem in Cambodia and very explosive.

Addressing women's rights problems, the Special Representative said domestic violence was widespread. Women had not been welcomed into either public or political life. During the last election there had been very few female candidates. Less than 10 per cent of the new National Assembly were female.

Mr. Hammarberg told correspondents that some moves had been made on the issue of landmines. Last week there had been a major conference with a lot of international visitors trying to highlight the problem of demining. Now, with the modern techniques of demining, "we estimate that it will take about 30 years for Cambodia to get rid of the mines already planted." That was on the condition that no new mines were planted.

The Special Representative said he had been putting pressure on the Government for three years to take the step to ban mines in the country. Strangely enough, it had not done that so far. Now, however, it had prepared a bill to be put to the Parliament very soon which would ban the production, stockpiling and use of landmines. That was a step in the right direction.

A correspondent wanted to know whether there was any relationship between the Special Representative's bleak report and the fact that Cambodia still did not have a seat in the General Assembly. Mr. Hammarberg said that the nature of his reports had been the same for the last three years. For the first year, Cambodia had been a Member of the Assembly. He regretted that they were not here because he would have liked them to have been able to respond or comment on his report and take part in the discussion about solutions. Because of the political confusion in that country, the

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Credentials Committee had ruled that there would be no one representing Cambodia this year.

Another correspondent wanted to know whether there was any correlation between the number of people from the Khmer Rouge coming back into the Government and some of the official violence. If that was not the case, then what was the psychological effect on the people of Cambodia to see such people back in positions of authority? Mr. Hammarberg said that what the Government had done was to allow the Khmer Rouge structure to continue where it was. It also had an autonomous area cut out in the province of Battambang.

Mr. Hammarberg said the Khmer Rouge had also been a separate constituency in the last election. That was controversial in Cambodia. None of the Ministers today, however, were defectors. Some had a background like Hun Sen himself. Also, none of the defectors over the last year and a half had been elevated to positions in the Government. The Khmer Rouge was still there, nevertheless. Every time there was an explosion, there was always a suspicion that the small core that remained up in the North could be behind it.

Asked how long the expert group had been in Cambodia, when they were expected to finish and when were they expected to have an answer on whether there was enough information to proceed with a tribunal, the Special Representative said that the green light had been given last year in the General Assembly. The Prime Ministers of Cambodia had been asked if they were interested in any kind of international help. They had said they were. He had advised them to write to the Secretary-General and express that desire.

That letter was the basis for a clause in the General Assembly resolution on Cambodia which stated that the Secretary-General was authorized to respond positively to the request for international assistance, for instance through the appointment of a group of experts. The Cambodians had agreed to that and the Secretary-General had appointed the experts in July. They were going in on 14 November for the first time and had been asked to complete their recommendations by the end of December.

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