PRESS BRIEFING ON HUMAN RIGHTS IN RWANDA, BURUNDI

18 November 1996

Press Briefing

19961118 FOR INFORMATION OF UNITED NATIONS SECRETARIAT ONLY

The Special Rapporteurs on Rwanda and Burundi for the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights told a Headquarters press briefing today that the main problem in the region was the reception of the massive exodus of refugees, and the presence of an international force could help cope with that task. They also emphasized that a Great Lakes conference was necessary, as there was no possible military solution to the crisis, only negotiations between all the parties.

René Degni-Segui of Côte d'Ivoire, the Special Rapporteur for Rwanda, said that there were three essential points when considering human rights in Rwanda: the problem of genocide; current violations; and the return of refugees. The problem that was of interest today was the last point -- the current return of refugees.

Up to now, he continued, the return of the refugees had been blocked by the presence of intimidators in the camps. Now, the massive exodus of refugees was moving towards Rwanda.

"The problem is, can the international force intervene now despite this influx?" Mr. Degni-Segui asked. "How should it be organized? And once the refugees arrive in Rwanda, how should we organize the reception? Should we send observers? If observers are deployed, should we help? Shouldn't we wait a certain period of time before sending them to see if there are no reprisals on the part of the victims of the genocide? These are the issues I wish to raise."

Sergio Pinheiro of Brazil, Special Rapporteur for Burundi, told correspondents that the purpose of his presence at the briefing was to recall that the crisis in Burundi was still going on and, thus, attention should not flag, despite the tremendous dimensions of the crisis in Zaire.

Firstly, he said, the international community was still waiting for a timetable for the democratic transition from the de facto transitional authorities in Burundi. Secondly, there was no military solution to the crisis in Burundi. "The de facto authorities have already announced their intentions to negotiate, so we have to move fast", he said. The best way to overcome all the discussions about economic sanctions, which, of course, would increase the suffering of the population, would be to have immediate negotiations between all the factions.

Finally, he continued, even with a de facto government, the struggle against impunity must go on. He welcomed the fact that the Burundi authorities had announced their intention to investigate the instigators of grave violations of human rights within the Burundian army. Also, the de facto authorities had recommended to the United Nations the idea of setting up an international tribunal, to deal with the crimes since 1993. His goal was to insist on continued pressure in the case of Burundi.

A correspondent mentioned reports about the tens or hundreds of thousands of refugees wandering in the jungle, who were not part of that massive exodus from the camps. What was their fate likely to be? he asked. Mr. Degni-Segui said that those camps had so far been inaccessible, so that it was not possible to really know what was happening. So far, however, the information received indicated that those persons were moving towards the others. They were not informed they were weak, and they may have participated in genocide and so would not be interested in returning to Rwanda, he said. It would be difficult to predict their fate, because of their inaccessibility, he continued, and that might be the role of the international force, which could assist in that task. Human rights observers also needed to be deployed, to see what was happening and to assist in the delivery of humanitarian assistance. Of course -- "and this is a sacrosanct law in humanitarian affairs" -- their return had to be totally voluntary, he added.

What was the treatment for refugees from both Zaire and Burundi to Rwanda over the last two years or so, before the current exodus, as that might give an indication of how they might be received now? a correspondent asked. Mr. Degni-Segui said that there had been two moments for the refugees. When people originally arrived, they were seized and put in prison, a situation he had described in his reports. Very often, those detentions were arbitrary. The pretext of genocide was used to arrest people in order to seize their property. But during the second movement -- when Zaire decided to expel a certain number of people -- their reception was well organized in cooperation with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), and there were very few arrests, and people were better treated. However, the exodus up to now had not been massive. In the current situation, it was necessary to ensure not only that the soldiers behaved properly, but also that the population did not seek vengeance. It all depended on whether present structures were sufficient and on the number of people arriving, which could be in the millions. There might be arrests, there might be massacres, he added.

Some human rights groups had reported widespread summary executions of Hutus in rural parts of Rwanda, a correspondent noted. Was that so? Mr. Degni-Segui, referring to his latest report, said there had been executions of Hutus before the exodus. Those had taken place during two periods, the first being during April-May this year, when the population was counted, and the second was during what was called "Operation Foule", when the Government was seeking out infiltrators into Rwanda.

Rwanda/Burundi Briefing - 3 - 18 November 1996

What were the chances for a Great Lakes conference? a correspondent asked. Was it plausible for next year? Mr. Pinheiro said that he believed such a conference was necessary. There were huge human rights problems and a terrible economic situation. A conference would be the best format to address all the problems. Mr. Degni-Segui added the problems should be given an integrated focus, and the international community needed an overall view, which had been emphasized in Mr. Pinheiro's reports, his own and those of the Special Rapporteur for Zaire, Roberto Garreton of Chile.

"We have always drawn the international community's attention to the need to organize a Great Lakes conference", Mr. Degni-Segui said. Mr. Pinheiro pointed out that all three Rapporteurs had issued a press release inviting the United Nations Human Rights Commission to have an extraordinary meeting to deal with all the human rights aspects of the region. "I think we are not inventing the regionalization of the crisis. The crisis is regional already", he said.

The United Nations was made privy to the blueprint of a massacre by a Hutu leader who defected, a correspondent said. That report was relayed to Headquarters, where someone decided that there was no mandate to look into the arms caches mentioned in the report. When did the United Nations have the report and how many people were killed exactly? she asked. Mr. Degni-Segui said he was not aware of the report. Regarding the 1994 massacres, it was difficult to give any precise numbers, but it was generally agreed that the minimal figure was 500,000, and the maximum was 1 million. Mr. Pinheiro added that to use the adjective "exact" was impossible in that region. "What is fascinating is that the world was always waiting for a big catastrophe", he said. "But there was always a catastrophe every day. But the world was always waiting for a mega-catastrophe, and one wanted to ask, what was the threshold that would really move the international community to pay attention?" Despite all that was happening in Zaire, he added, there were so many countries that were so cautious about taking the wrong decision, that they did not take any decision at all. It was not really necessary to ask for the "exact" number, he said.

In his last report, the Secretary-General had foreseen something similar to Rwanda happening in Burundi, a correspondent said. What impact had the recent offensive in eastern Zaire had on stability in Burundi? he asked. Mr. Pinheiro said that he could give only an answer that was a guess, an interpretation -- the crisis in Zaire was very helpful in weakening the pressure on Burundi. Of course, everything that would weaken the sanctuaries of the Hutu rebels would be helpful to the de facto authorities, but it was very misleading. The whole region should be considered and pressure applied on the de facto authorities so that they conformed to a democratic agenda. The international community was not helped at all by the present political situation in Burundi, which was not ideal for addressing the question of gross human rights violations.

Rwanda/Burundi Briefing - 4 - 18 November 1996

There were reports of ethnic cleansing going on in Burundi, a correspondent said. Was that both sides, or Tutsis killing Hutus? he asked. "You can give any tag you want", Mr. Pinheiro said. Since May 1995 [when he was appointed Special Rapporteur] -- one element of Burundi's society was that the Tutsis were much more concentrated in the yuban areas, and the Hutus were concentrated in the rural areas. That was an "old" process -- it was a de facto ethnic concentration.

Responding to a question on Hutu refugees who found their homes occupied by Tutsis upon returning, Mr. Degni-Segui said that after the war there were about 50,000-60,000 Tutsis from the other diaspora of 1959 who came back to Rwanda. They did not know where to go, so they occupied the houses of the Hutus. The Arusha Accords stipulated that those returness who had been there for 10 years or more could claim their property. Otherwise, they would have to find somewhere else. Provisionally, apart from the denunciations, mistreatments and so on, the Tutsis who arrived were, more or less, authorized to occupy those houses.

Mr. Degni-Segui then related the case of a gentleman who was arrested, accused of genocide and put in prison. He was able to demonstrate through the seals on his passport that, throughout the genocide, he was outside Rwanda. So, he was freed. However, some time afterwards he wanted to reclaim his house. He was subsequently found dead, because of the claim on his house. Provisionally, those people should occupy those houses. The Government had identified sites to build shelters and houses, but it estimated that 10 per cent of vacant properties were the object of litigation in towns like Kigali. But with the massive influx, the people occupying those houses would have to leave, and it was not easy to say what was going to happen.

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